The key to dealing with climate change is not only to use cleaner energy sources, but also to greatly reduce the amount of energy we use. A 75 fold reduction in energy use for our transportation would be a huge win and a major game changer for not only climate change but with resource issues. Also, solar PV on the car would be a very convenient additional source of energy especially on long trips.
On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 4:17 PM Robert Bruninga <bruni...@usna.edu> wrote: > Simple answer I use is that 12 full size home panels can fully charge a > typical EV to the American average 40 miles a day forever. > > But it is far mor economical to put those on the roof of your house or > garage than on the car. > bob > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Larry Gales via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> > wrote: > >> To look at this further, let us consider the solar energy available in the >> Seattle area (again, the worst in the continental USA) over the year. The >> results, in terms of sun-hours/day are: >> >> Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug >> Sep Oct Nov Dec >> >> 0.92 1.65 2.88 4.04 5.47 6.06 6.23 4.98 >> 3.85 >> 2.09 1.15 0.74 >> >> >> >> Let us assume that we travel 20,000 miles/year (the US average for a 2-car >> family) which consume about 28,000 kWh of energy/year, when we convert the >> fuel consumed to kWh. Let us assume we travel less in the Winter, at >> about >> 40 miles/day (at total of 6000 miles for those 5 colder months): >> >> >> >> · During the 5 colder months the PV on the car delivers only 20 >> miles/day, so we need an extra 20 miles/day of energy from the utility. >> Given >> that the car gets 20 miles/kWh, then for 5 months we need (5*30*20)/20 = >> 150 kWh that we need to get from the utility. >> >> >> >> · But during the remaining 7 months of the year, we get an average >> of 71 miles/day from the PV array on the car, but since we only travel an >> average of 67 miles/day, we don’t need any extra energy. >> >> >> >> >> >> If we add the embedded energy needed to create the solar PV array, where >> we >> assume that a 1.5 kW array produces an average of 1500 * 1.2 kWh/year, and >> at the standard 3.7 payback years for solar PV that comes to 6,660 kWh. >> Over >> a 30 year lifetime that comes to 222 kWh/year + 150 kWh/year or 372 >> kWh/year total, *which is 75 times less* energy than what the average >> family now consumes, yet we travel the same speeds for the same distance. >> >> >> >> Although the Stella Lux or Stella Vie are not in production they are >> street >> legal (at least in Europe) cars and have been making tours around Europe >> for over a year. The team is considering developing a production car, >> named “Lightyear”, which uses most of the same technology. >> >> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 3:34 PM Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> wrote: >> >> > The Stella is an awesome example of what can be done. Aside from what >> > Lee says, which I think is one area of resistance, another big problem >> > is need for a variety of uses. >> > >> > What I mean is I (or you or the huddling masses...) want something that >> > works for a 15 mile solo commute, works to take the family out to >> > dinner, works to go skiing (hiking, fishing, hunting, ...) for the day, >> > and works to go out of town for the weekend. I think the Stella might be >> > able to do the first two, for a large percentage of people. The latter >> > two? I doubt it. >> > >> > Now, for going out of town, it wouldn't be too hard to make arrangements >> > to easily pick up a rental. The other case gets harder. You have a lot >> > of elevation gain, meaning you'll need a pretty hefty battery since >> > solar isn't going to be anywhere near adequate. That means the car gets >> > super heavy - like a Tesla - and now the benefits of the Stella are >> > impossible. This usage, too, could be handled by a rental. But I doubt >> > most people are willing add two hours to an already long day in order to >> > use a rental. On top of that, most rental companies don't permit you to >> > drive on unpaved roads. >> > >> > If we, eventually, have autonomous vehicles, perhaps you'll be able to >> > own a car for your special purpose activities and fetch one for your >> > daily usage. Then, Stella-like vehicles become a real option, I think. >> > >> > Peri >> > >> > ------ Original Message ------ >> > From: "Lee Hart via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> > Cc: "Lee Hart" <leeah...@earthlink.net> >> > Sent: 21-Oct-18 2:56:18 PM >> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars >> > >> > >Larry Gales via EV wrote: >> > >>When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different >> > >>results >> > >>from the negative views of solar powered cars. I start with the >> > >>assumption >> > >>that the Dutch students who have won most of the solar car records are >> > >>not >> > >>actually lying. >> > > >> > >The problem is that most people assume that EVs must be exactly like >> > >ICEs. Typical ICEs today weigh a ton or more, and have the aerodynamics >> > >of a brick. All those edgy lines, huge grilles, big fat tires, and >> > >rough bottom mean it takes lot of horsepower to drag it down the road. >> > > >> > >The automakers are building EVs the same way. Big, heavy, poor >> > >aerodynamics. >> > > >> > >But there are other ways to do it. Race cars and airplanes are much >> > >lighter, and have aerodynamics based on performance rather than >> > >styling. Amory Lovins has been championing the "hypercar" concept for >> > >decades. The basic idea is that if you halve the weight, and cut the >> > >aerodynamic losses in half, it takes 1/4th as much energy to push it >> > >down the road. Yet it can be just as strong and safe, by using modern >> > >materials and construction techniques. >> > > >> > >EVs like Stella Lux and Stella Vie demonstrate how successful this >> > >strategy can be. When you have a 4-passenger car that weighs 826 lbs >> > >and 1/3 the aerodynamic losses, solar power becomes a viable way to >> > >power it! >> > > >> > >-- Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple, >> > >reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and >> > >affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy. >> > >-- >> > >Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> > >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> > >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >> > >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Larry Gales >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181021/d73732e7/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> > -- Larry Gales -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181021/eb7f6c32/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
