It looks like you have quite a bit of first-hand knowledge in this
area. What speeds do you get on your older free supercharging (the
older models that have the free supercharging for the life of the vehicle).
With respect to the $2k offer that you mention, that is interesting,
that they had that. My questions include
- how much would a 10 or 20 year old model s be worth in the
marketplace, if it is well-maintained (such as with updated upholstery
when needed), if it has free transferable supercharging for the life of
the vehicle, and if the supercharger speeds and batteries are updated
and legit? $30k? $60k? More? Or perhaps not much more than a
comparable vehicle lacking the free transferable life-of-vehicle
supercharging. (keeping in mind that what we are talking about here is
road-tripping as much as one wishes for one's entire life, in a sports
sort-of-luxury vehicle without paying a dime for electricity other than
non-road-trips, or elected L2 charging such as at hotels).
- if the vehicle at some point in the future starts to reflect a higher
marketplace valuation, how does one reasonably insure it? i.e.: at
present, if one just buys normal insurance, I'm not sure a value is put
on the presence of free transferable life-of-vehicle supercharging.
- how much is this valuation impaired if we know that the average speeds
over the course of a 20% to 80% charge are held to x (such as 45 kW)?
(and side-question, at what point would enough lawyers and drivers sue
Tesla and possibly win for failure to deliver "supercharging" as it is
commonly understood? 40 kW? 30 kW? Less?)
On 5/16/2023 10:08 AM, Willie via EV wrote:
On 5/16/23 10:32, Josh Landess via EV wrote:
In addition to what was covered in the article, the main thing that
Tesla is doing to incentivize me to get out of the 2015 Model S 70 I
am driving is to reduce the speed of the supercharging. It maxes out
around 70 and pretty quickly gets below 60, 50, 40. Road trips, even
when the charging is free, are hard when you have to spend an hour at
a supercharger so frequently. I have looked into paying for an
upgrade to 90 kWh, and they would be fine to sell me that, and it
would not invalidate the free supercharging, but they explicitly told
me that this would not necessarily result in a supercharger speed
improvement. I would speculate the lack of clear path to paying for
improving the supercharging speeds is deliberate. The net result in
my view is that the long-term value of the vehicle is diminished,
without apparently breaking any agreements.
I intended to respond to the original post several days ago. But, did
not get around to it.
Tesla seems to be offering two free SuperCharging, each for three
years, for S & X. If you buy a new S or X soon, you can get one
deal. If you trade in (or allow Tesla to take away free
SuperCharging) a S or X with free SuperCharging, you get another three
years.
I have a little used 2013 MS (160k miles with range down from ~270
miles to ~230) that I would be a candidate for giving up the
SuperCharging. My most driven car is a 2018 M3 with free
SuperCharging (93k miles with range down from ~320 miles to ~250) that
will keep it's SuperCharging).
Given the above, I was seriously considering a new S or X on which I
could get six years of free SuperCharging. Low TSLA price deterred me.
There is a question out there for economists to calculate the value
of any electric vehicle that comes with long-term free transferable
dc fast charging for the life of the vehicle. I have to believe that
the free supercharging Teslas would be candidates to have their
marketplace value rise and not fall, depending on certain factors.
However, this business of Tesla reducing the supercharging speed of
those vehicles I think accomplishes Tesla's apparent goal of reducing
the value of the vehicle to the drivers. Perhaps this is helping
them repatriate some of those vehicles and remove the supercharging
obligations from their books (if they have an accounting treatment
for it). I also wonder if there are economists who have tracked down
whether Tesla publishes anything for this obligation in its financial
statements, and if so, what can be gleaned from any value that Tesla
is putting on the charging and the vehicles.
I have no clear concise answers to those questions. Back in
2012-2013, it was thought that the free SuperCharging was valued at
about $2k. A S60 was offered with either free SuperCharging or not.
With a $2k difference in price.
I recognize that my infatuation with free SuperCharging is not
entirely rational. My SuperCharging use is at least 10k miles/year,
perhaps as many as 20k miles.. It seems like paid SuperCharging is
now up around or above $.35/kwh. That would be more than $.10/mile.
My home charging costs me between $.03 and $.10 /kwh. $.01 to $.04
/mile. Paid SuperCharging would likely cost me at least $.06/mile
more than charging at home. So, I might put the value of free
SuperCharging to be at least $600/year. Unless I've made some
arithmetic error(s). :-)
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