On 7/8/2025 3:31 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 9:12 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:
* >> coercion by others ispart of one's experience. So what is
the difference? *
/> One is external and due to someone else's will/
*Somebody else's will, or somebody else's free will, or somebody
else's compatiblist free will? How can I tell the difference? *
Who said you needed to tell the difference. You must know that is meant
by someone's will. Your pretend confusion is an example of sophistry.
*And if you refuse to do what somebody wants you to do, if you cause
their wish to remain unfulfilled, does that mean you are also engaging
in coercion? *
Coercion means threatening something you really don't want to happen as
the alternative to you doing something you really don't want to do. It
admits of degrees. You can look it up in the dictionary.
*>> And in the PRESENCE of coercionthe exercise of your will
is STILL determined by your experience. So what is the
difference? *
/> And it's determined by you blood pressure too./
*Exactly. The entire idea of "free will" is vacuous,and sticking on
the word "compatiblist" is of no help whatsoever. *
The point of the word "compatibilist" is it modifies the "free" to mean
"free of coercion" instead of "undetermined", it makes the freedom
compatibile with determinism. But you knew this and you're engaging in
sophistry by picking out the word "experience" from several factors I
named.
*
*
*>> Coercion is just something that stops me from doing what I
would otherwise want to do.*
No it's something that motivates you to do something you would otherwise
consider very undesirable. But you knew the difference between coercion
and constraint and just chose to pretend they were the same. Sophistry.
*
*
*I want to walk straight ahead but my perception that there is
a brick wall straight in front of me prevents me from trying
to do that. I want to jump over a mountain but the law of
gravity prevents me from doing that. Nothing you have said
makes free will one bit less dumb. *
/> OK forget it. If you can't tell coercion from a brick wall I
can't help you. Your sophistry is impenetrable./
*The word "sophistry" is only used if one cannot think of a logical
rebuttal to what somebody else is saying. *
Well just so you had a reason for resorting to it.
Brent
**
*
*
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
*
*
7gq
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