On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 6:16 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:
*>> It's the recognition that there is a difference between determined by
> others thru coercion and determined by ones own experience*
>
*OK, but coercion by others is part of one's experience. So what is the
difference? *
> *> Compatibilism holds that in the absence of coercion your exercise of
> will is determined by your experience,*
>
*And in the PRESENCE of coercion the exercise of your will is STILL
determined by your experience. So what is the difference? *
> > *It's not free in the sense of undetermined, but it's free of
> coercion.*
>
*Coercion is just something that stops me from doing what I would otherwise
want to do. I want to walk straight ahead but my perception that there is a
brick wall straight in front of me prevents me from trying to do that. I
want to jump over a mountain but the law of gravity prevents me from doing
that. Nothing you have said makes free will one bit less dumb. *
> *Compatibilist free-will is so called because it's compatible with
> determinism. *
>
*So you keep saying, but you've given me no reason to think that what you
keep saying is true. *
> * > It says you actions are determined by your perceptions, experience,
> genetics etc.*
>
*A keen grasp of the obvious, but free will is still an idea so bad it's
not even wrong. *
*>>If you are chasing me with a If all your actions are determined then you
>> are ALWAYS responsible for your actions. *
>
>
*> Even when your action is coerced, e.g. Robbers hold your family at gun
> point to coerce you into cleaning out the till for them where you work? *
>
*Yes. I want law enforcement to make sure those robbers never again hold
somebody else's family at gunpoint, passing a few amps through their bodies
for a few seconds should do the trick. And I don't give a damn if those
robbers had bad genes or grew up in bad environments. *
> *Or a child runs in front of your car and you swerve, smashing up a
> parked car which you are now responsible for?*
*In that case your quick reflex was responsible for saving a child's life,
and you should receive praise for that even though it only happened because
you were lucky enough to inherit especially quick reflex genes. Albert
Einstein was lucky enough to inherit genes that made him a genius, that
certainly doesn't prevent me from admiring him. *
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
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