On 7/7/2025 1:41 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 3:57 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:
*>> That sounds like plain old determinism to me! *
> /How many times need I explain that it is *compatible* with "plain
old determinism",/
*42.*
It's more that "just" deterministic. It's the recognition that there
is a difference between determined by others thru coercion and
determined by ones own experience and genetics as encoded in ones brain.
/> it's right in the name "compatibilism"?/
*So what exactly does the word "compatibilism" add that the word
"determinism" by itself lax? Whatis the difference between "free will"
and "compatibilist free will"? I see no difference except that one is
a slightly more verbose form of gibberish than the other. *
Compatibilism holds that in the absence of coercion your exercise of
will is determined by your experience, perceptions, and genetics (all
stuff that' insider your skin) and this is what makes it "free". It's
not free in the sense of undetermined, but it's free of coercion.
*>> And it certainly doesn't change the fact that you did what
you did for a reason OR you did NOT do what you did for a
reason. You're either a roulette wheel or a cuckoo clock. Are
you actually claiming that the **compatibilistare saying
something profound and are not just mouthing silly platitudes?! *
/
> Are there no categories in your mind between "profound" and "silly
platitude"? /
*Actually Iwas being too kind in calling free will a platitudebecause
a platitude is a coherent statementand it might even be true, but
"free will" is nothing butgibberish, and the word
"compatibilism"cannot magicallychange that sorry state of affairs. *
/> Compatibilism explains why "free will", as some property you
have, is compatible with determinism. /
*I heard no such explanation,all I heard was you claiming that there
was an explanation but you never specified what that explanation was,
nor has anybody else. *
/> That's the third time I've explained what compatiblism to you. /
*No, that's probably the fifth time you've claimed there is an
explanation, but you've never said what that explanation is. You just
say it's different, you don't say why it's different. *
Compatibilist free-will is so called because it's compatible with
determinism. It says you actions are determined by your perceptions,
experience, genetics etc. Everything that is encoded in your brain and
body, in other words by who you are. And as Daniel Dennett said that's
all the free will worth having.
It's more that "just" deterministic. It's the recognition that there is
a difference between determined by others thru coercion and determined
by ones own experience and genetics as encoded in ones brain.
Compatibilism holds that in the absence of coercion your exercise of
will is determined by your experience, perceptions, and genetics (all
stuff that' insider your skin) and this is what makes it "free". It's
not free in the sense of undetermined, but it's free of coercion.
/> I'm just claiming that I have written what compatibilism means/
*Nope.You have done no such thing. *
See above.
**
> /There's an old joke in which the defendant says "All our actions
are determined, your honor, so I can't be held responsible.The
judge replies, "In that case it is determined that my action is to
sentence you to 18mo in the county jail."/
*That's not a joke, that makes perfect sense!If you are chasing me
with a bloody ax I don't care if you're doing it because you were
unluckily enough to have inherited bad genes, or because you were
unlucky enough to have had a bad childhood, or because you were
unlucky enough to be hit by a high energy cosmic ray that destroyed
some neurons in your brain, all I care about is that you stop and that
law enforcement makes sure that you never do something like that
again. If all your actions are determined then you are _ALWAYS_
responsible for your actions. *
Even when your action is coerced, e.g. Robbers hold your family at gun
point to coerce you into cleaning out the till for them where you work?
Or a child runs in front of your car and you swerve, smashing up a
parked car which you are now responsible for?
Brent
**
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
*
*
wdd
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