On 08 Nov 2013, at 17:29, Chris de Morsella wrote:



-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 2:35 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World


On 08 Nov 2013, at 03:44, Chris de Morsella wrote:



-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:26 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World


Not to be sarcastic, but probably yes. Money from bitumin brings
money for
research into environmental remediation. It also helps liberate people
from pouring cash into the OPEC world, which seems to only inflame
Muslim passions. Plus the Canadians are world class technologists and
will likely invent more efficient engines, and also fund the green
technologies that you crave. Theres a reason why poor nations do not
do technology well.

You have a cornucopian view that we can go on making horrible messes
on this planet without worrying about the consequences because somehow
it will all get magically remediated.... yeah like that actually
happens in the real world. Remediation is a cost center NOT  a profit
center; it is done only to the minimum level necessary in order to
stay just this side of the law. You are free to say whatever you want
of course, but I find it difficult to believe your hypothesis that the
very same humans who profit from raping the earth will -- after the
fact and after they have lined their pockets with ill-gotten wealth -- will somehow do a 180 degree turn and start behaving in the altruistic
noble manner you seem so certain they will.

Are you saying that the Arabs would be happier if they had no oil
wealth...
that all this money has made them hopping mad?

I read a paper arguing in that direction, showing that Jordanian have
much less tryanny thanks to the absence of oil.
That makes sense. It is easier to do that type of business with Tyrant, than
with elected people.

Sure of course, and the western powers have seen to it that tyrants are kept in place to keep the oil flowing, under regimes they can control... case in
point the CIA organized coup against Prime Minister of Iran Mohammad
Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953. However this is a foreign imposition of
presidents for life and kleptocracies such as the house of Saud. The phrase I was replying to " pouring cash into the OPEC world, which seems to only inflame Muslim passions. " seemed to promote various ugly stereotypes that are quite common in the western media regarding the Arab/Muslim world. I was responding to those insinuations, which dip down into a prejudicial stream I
personally find rather unpleasant.

OK. Thanks for the clarification.

Bruno



Green technologies are
already proving themselves -- without your plucky Canadian tar sand
billionaires (some of whom are Texans by the way) deciding to invest
their profits in green technology -- as if they would.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World

Those plucky Canadians -- as you term them -- are criminally
destroying vast swaths of Alberta turning it into a poisoned chemical
saturated moonscape as well as sucking up vast amounts of water from
other potential uses -- including agriculture. Will the bitumen
sweated out of that sand be worth the ultimate costs to get it?


      On Thursday, November 7, 2013 11:24 AM, Jesse Mazer
<laserma...@gmail.com> wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:50 AM,  <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:Fur
sure, that was the truth. Now we got's shale gas, which seems to pay a
lot better, is safer to go after, and is cleaner, carbon-wise. Unless
you are buying into technological unemployment (robots, software) then
we have to face the fact. BHO's Keynesian way has fallen on its ass
and has stayed down, like a fighter throwing a fight, after a payoff.

I've read Keynesians like Paul Krugman say that the level of stimulus
was actually not enough by Keynesian standards (and too much went to
tax cuts), but certainly the US economy with its level of stimulus did
much better than most of the states that more thoroughly rejected
Keynesianism and instead chose austerity in the midst of a recession,
like the UK...see various graphs at
http://graphsagainstausterity.tumblr.com/ (click on any graph to see
the original article it came from)


Increased government employment doesn't seem to generate tax revenue
very well.

Except government employment hasn't increased under Obama, it's
actually been steadily decreasing during his presidency (apart from a
brief spike when the decennial census was taken and they needed a lot
of temporary census workers), due mostly to the Republicans in
Congress, whereas under George W. Bush government employment was
steadily increasing (this collapsing of the public sector is probably
contributing quite a bit to the slow recovery). See the two graphs
showing private sector and public sector jobs under Bush and Obama
here:

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/04/public-and- pr
ivate- sector-payroll-jobs-bush-and-obama.html




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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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