On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 4:32 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >> Bruno and others continually ask, "what city will the Helsinki Man see >> from *THE* first person perspective?" when I answer "Moscow and Washington" >> they always respond the same way "that's impossible, *HE* can't see 2 >> cities at the same time". But if "he" means the guys who remember being >> the Helsinki Man (something we both agreed to) why can't "he" see 2 cities >> at the same time? At this point Bruno always regurgitates the same stale >> canned response "you confuse the 1p and the 3p" as if that clears up >> everything. So Brent, when Bruno talks about "*HE*" or "*THE* first person >> perspective" what the hell is Bruno talking about? > > > > > He's talking about the inner thoughts and perceptions of a person; as > opposed to what onlookers my observer about a person. > And one of those 2 people has no thoughts and perceptions ?? If BOTH people remember being the Helsinki Man and if that's what "he" means (and at one time Bruno and I agreed on this but a sentence or two later Bruno apparently changed the meaning yet again to who knows what ) then "he"saw Moscow AND "he" saw Washington. I don't see how anybody could logically dispute this conclusion. For "he will see only one city" to be correct the meaning of "he" will need to be changed. So what does "he" mean today? > > > Onlookers can see that someone calling himself John Clark has stepped out > of the duplicator. > Forget the onlookers, the person entering the duplicator believes he is John just as strongly as you believe you are Brent , and EXACTLY the same thing is true of the TWO people who step out of the duplicator. And everybody is correct from the third person point of view and also from their own first person point of view. > > > But I think this is all just semantic hash. > Yes, semantics is putting meaning into language including mathematical language, and Bruno has made a hash out of it. The entire point of this business is to put our intuitive feelings of identity on a firm logical foundation, but Bruno is unable to give a consistent meaning to some of the important technical terms in the paper, terms like "he" or "you" or " THE future first person point of view". Hand waving and pleas that "you know what I mean" are no substitute for logic. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
