On 03 Jul 2015, at 18:15, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Your misusing the grammar and treating it as fact. "The
first-person perspective" doesn't imply there is only one person;
it's just a label for a certain kind of perspective.
Bruno and others continually ask, "what city will the Helsinki Man
see from *THE* first person perspective?" when I answer "Moscow and
Washington" they always respond the same way "that's impossible,
*HE* can't see 2 cities at the same time".
But if "he" means the guys who remember being the Helsinki Man
(something we both agreed to) why can't "he" see 2 cities at the
same time?
because you have agreed that in the FIRST PERSON pov, that is
logically impossible. In Helsinki, you can be sure that whatever
happens, you will not feel to see both city at once, and that is an
easy consequence of computationalism and the default hypothesis in the
protocol.
At this point Bruno always regurgitates the same stale canned
response "you confuse the 1p and the 3p" as if that clears up
everything.
That does, and it is a pure mystery why you pretend not seeing that
(especially that you have already show in some post that you have no
problem with that).
So Brent, when Bruno talks about "*HE*" or "*THE* first person
perspective" what the hell is Bruno talking about?
He is the guy in Helsinki. And "the" designates the unique experience,
in one city, which is accessible for "he", the guy which is presently
in Helsinki whose first person perspective will find himself in W, or
in M, but never in both.
A conscious being can look into the past and always see one and only
one sequence of previous selves that define who he is today, but
there is no corresponding unique path into the future, many things
could happen and if Everett was right do happen; in fact to a
conscious being that's the difference between the past and the
future, and the point where that change occurs is the present. Bruno
is trying to define himself by looking to the future
Not at all. I try to predict what can happen to me, using a definition
of personal identity we have agreed on since the start.
You keep saying this. I will keep saying that you are inventing this.
but that's like pushing on a string, it doesn't work.
> The diary is just a form of memory that can be objectively
verified.
I know, and that's why the entire diary business is just a
silly pointless complication to an already silly thought experiment;
the validity of memory was never a point of contention, at least not
by me.
It makes clear that the notion of 1p and 3p is obtained by
distinguishing the diary which go in the box and the diary which does
not go in the box. It has been useful for some, as it gives pure 3p
definition of both the 1p and 3p views.
Bruno
John K Clark
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