On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 10:15 AM John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 8:32 AM Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > *> John - do you have any response?* >> > > If you insist. > > >> It's not hard to make progress in consciousness research, it's >>>> impossible. >>>> >>> >>> *So we should ignore experiments where you stimulate the brain and the >>> subject reports experiencing some kind of qualia,* >>> >> > We should always pay attention to all relevant *BEHAVIOR**,* including > *BEHAVIOR* such as noises produced by the mouths of other people. > Got it. Accounts of subjective experience are not the salient facts in these experiments, it's the way they move their lips and tongue and pass air through their vocal cords that matters. The rest of the world has moved on from BF Skinner, but not you, apparently. > > >> >*Why doesn't that represent progress? * >>> >> > It may represent progress but not progress towards understanding > consciousness. > Why not? Understanding how the brain maps or encodes different subjective experiences surely counts as progress towards understanding consciousness. If we can explain why, for example, you see stars if you bash the back of your head, but not the front, then that would count as progress towards understanding consciousness. > > > *Is it because you don't trust people's reports?* > > > Trust but verify. When you and I talk about consciousness I don't even > know if we're talking about the same thing; perhaps by your meaning of the > word I am not conscious, maybe I'm conscious by my meaning of the word but > not by yours, maybe my consciousness is just a pale pitiful thing compared > to the grand glorious awareness that you have and what you mean by the > word "consciousness". Maybe comparing your consciousness to mine is like > comparing a firefly to a supernova. Or maybe it's the other way around. > Neither of us will ever know. > You make it sound as though there's nothing to be gleaned from systematic investigation, and the thing I understand the least is how incurious you are about it. I mean, to each their own, but trying to grasp how objective systems (like brains) and consciousness interrelate is perhaps the most fascinating thing I can think of. The mystery of it is incredible to behold when you really get into it. Terren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAMy3ZA_pZMROyqdu1FbM7FuyhMrSOyif54_B%3DqhE2NSFRDY88Q%40mail.gmail.com.
