On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 11:17 AM Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> We should always pay attention to all relevant *BEHAVIOR**,* including >> *BEHAVIOR* such as noises produced by the mouths of other people. >> > > *> Got it. Accounts of subjective experience are not the salient facts in > these experiments, it's the way they move their lips and tongue and pass > air through their vocal cords that matters. The rest of the world has moved > on from BF Skinner, but not you, apparently. * > Forget BF Skinner, this is more general than consciousness or behavior. If you want to explain Y at the most fundamental level from first principles you can't start with "X produces Y'' and then use X as part of your explanation of Y. > >>> *Why doesn't that represent progress? * >>> >> >> >> It may represent progress but not progress towards understanding >> consciousness. >> > > *> Why not? Understanding how the brain maps or encodes different > subjective experiences * > Because understanding how the brain maps and encodes information will tell you lots about behavior and intelligence but absolutely nothing about consciousness. *> If we can explain why, for example, you see stars if you bash the back > of your head,* > It might be able to explain why I say "I see green stars" but that's not what you're interested in, you want to know why I subjectively experience the green qualia and if it's the same as your green qualia, but no theory can even prove to you that I see any qualia at all. *> You make it sound as though there's nothing to be gleaned from > systematic investigation,* > It's impossible to systematically investigate everything therefor a scientist needs to use judgment to determine what is worth his time and what is not. Every minute you spend on consciousness research is a minute you could've spent on researching something far far more productive, which would be pretty much anything. Consciousness research has made ZERO progress over the last thousand years and I have every reason to believe it will make twice as much during the next thousand. *> the thing I understand the least is how incurious you are about it.* The thing I find puzzling is how incurious you and virtually all internet consciousness mavens are about how intelligence works. Figuring out intelligence is a solvable problem, but figuring out consciousness is not, probably because it's just a brute fact that consciousness is the way data feels when it is being processed. If so then there's nothing more they can be said about consciousness, however I am well aware that after all is said and done more is always said and done. John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> . . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0RTqv_FdnC6szHBEHO_gM%3DSeXJ86z9FEJmkW_Ba%2B7edg%40mail.gmail.com.
