I offer this with all sincerity: I mean no disrespect, and I have nothing against you personally. I do see why my comment about your paper being "speculative" comes across as disrespectful, so please accept my apologies. It's true that I haven't given your paper the attention required to make a judgment like that.
If you're willing to continue with me, then please understand that I'm someone who has to be pretty selective about how I allocate my time and energy. Engaging with me means engaging with someone who is not going to read your paper in its entirety until I know it's worth my time. Thus far my comments/questions have been about testing to see if it *is* worth my time. If *that* comes across as disrespectful, then let's just move on. Otherwise, please give me the grace to come from misunderstandings that need correction, and please correct my misunderstandings without resorting to insults. And I will avoid jumping to conclusions. If we can do that, maybe we can both benefit from a discussion. No hard feelings either way. Terren On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 5:17 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > @Terren. You clearly don't know to use the computer. For example, mouse > has a wheel. If you use that wheel, page moves. When page moves, new things > appear in the page. Like for example part 2 of the paper. Also, in case > your mouse doesn't have a wheel, there is also a scrollbar on the right > side of the window. If you click on that scrollbar and keep the click > pressed, you can then move the scrollbar up and down. By moving the > scrollbar up and down, new things appear in the page. Like for example part > 2 of the paper. > > Also, the fact that you call it "speculative", only shows that you are > full of hatred and are unwilling to engage. Then your presence is pointless > on this topic. Why are you here ? To freely hate on people ? Pathetic. > > On Wednesday 26 June 2024 at 15:51:48 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: > >> That paragraph is not in the paper you posted (here >> <https://philpapers.org/archive/VISHSB.pdf>) >> >> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 3:25 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> Some might wonder, if we cannot speak >>> about it, why are we sure that it is the one that brings consciousness >>> into existence. The reason >>> we can do this is because we observe the phenomenology of qualia (like >>> inclusion and >>> transcendence of levels) and conclude that this is possible only if some >>> entity that we call “self-reference” >>> must “exist”." >>> >> >> I don't know what you mean by "inclusion" or "transcendance of levels", >> so it's not clear why self-reference must exist for qualia. >> >> >>> I understand that we live in an age where attention span has been >>> reduced to 5 seconds. Nothing wrong with that. But if that is your >>> attention span, then you should employ it for tik-tok videos. Other >>> subjects require a different attention span. >>> >> >> That's just unnecessary. At least I'm engaging with your paper. And, for >> what it's worth, I'm busy. Having something like Claude that can summarize >> 17 pages of speculative philosophy is the only way I was going to do that. >> >> Terren >> >> >>> On Tuesday 25 June 2024 at 21:32:24 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: >>> >>>> From your paper, you define self-reference as: "Let self-reference be >>>> the entity with the property of looking-back-at-itself." >>>> >>>> Your definition invokes the concepts *entity*, *property*, >>>> *looking-back*, and *itself*. That's a lot of complexity for something >>>> that is fundamental. It's easy for me to imagine *entities *with >>>> different *properties* (i.e. that don't *look-back-on-itself), *but >>>> only because I'm starting from a linguistic perspective that already >>>> defines *entities *and *properties, *and *looking-back-at-itself.* You >>>> don't have that luxury. If you want to derive everything from a monism, you >>>> cannot define that monism in terms of concepts imported from a different >>>> metaphysics or conceptual framework. *Entities *and *properties of >>>> looking-back-at-itself *must be defined relative to your fundamental >>>> monism. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> @Terren. There is no "self" and "ability to reference". There is just >>>>> self-reference. You can call it hampty-dampty if you want. >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday 25 June 2024 at 20:01:24 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I read enough to confirm that you postulate self-reference as >>>>>> fundamental - the entity upon which everything else can be built. I'm >>>>>> wondering how that can be fundamental if it requires two components >>>>>> (self, >>>>>> and the ability to reference). >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:32 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The proper understanding happens by reading the paper, not by using >>>>>>> hallucinatory objects to give you a devoid of meaning shortcut. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday 25 June 2024 at 16:42:11 UTC+3 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I used Claude Sonnet to summarize your paper. Tell me if any of >>>>>>>> this misses the mark, but the paper appears to posit >>>>>>>> *self-reference* as fundamental, upon which all other aspects of >>>>>>>> reality are derived. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If so (this is me now), my first thought is that self-reference >>>>>>>> cannot be fundamental, because it already presupposes two distinct >>>>>>>> components: a "self" and the capacity to "reference". Worse, defining >>>>>>>> "self" (something to be derived) in terms of "self-reference" >>>>>>>> (fundamental) >>>>>>>> is circular. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Terren >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 9:09 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I invite you to discover my paper "How Self-Reference Builds the >>>>>>>>> World" which is the theory of everything that people searched for >>>>>>>>> millennia. It can be found on my philpeople profile: >>>>>>>>> https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4f13128c-5b63-422f-a6cb-4c3eb4f3618cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4f13128c-5b63-422f-a6cb-4c3eb4f3618cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ea01c75c-3cdd-4d9e-9ced-eb184ae03777n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ea01c75c-3cdd-4d9e-9ced-eb184ae03777n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d91bb4ab-d34c-4508-9fa8-7278599ff78en%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/d91bb4ab-d34c-4508-9fa8-7278599ff78en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/72e3472c-faf4-4cc2-b12c-b661189f4b98n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/72e3472c-faf4-4cc2-b12c-b661189f4b98n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e4dbcb1c-1219-4d8e-b87a-daa0e61ac228n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e4dbcb1c-1219-4d8e-b87a-daa0e61ac228n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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