--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I think this vibration stuff is unsupported and is > > misleading those who are in pain and suffering. Not > > very empathetic to me. > > As you just noted in another post, whether the stuff > *works* or not is irrelevant to the empathy issue. If > MMY *believed* it worked, that would be enough to > demonstrate empathy. Well, it is relevant if there is no evidence that it works and there is none for this vibration technology. And does the movement spend time researching vibration technology? Not to my knowledge. Arguably, it could be fraud. To be generous, it is misleading. But my point with empathy is what Curtis said so eloquently in other posts: MMY's purported desire to rid the world of suffering says nothing about his empathy. You know empathy by how someone treats individuals. Whether they feel another's suffering. Curtis's direct experience is consistent with what others have said about MMY. It is hard to think MMY as anything but narcissistic. I think empathy is important. Some do not. I know some (very few) physicians who do excellent work in research or on the table, but do not show empathy and I believe them to have narcissistic traits. They are motivated by success, not by heart. They rarely burn out as they do not suffer much when their patients suffer. Here they are saving lives, but not giving a shit about the individual. MMY comes across the same way. > > maybe not so perfect. I did see a purported quote from him > > once that said: "There is pain, but there is no suffering." > > Yes, *that's* what I'm talking about. That is what I assumed. > > I think this might > > be a bit too clever (if he in fact said this). > > It's the heart of the matter. MMY is by no means the > only one to have said this; it's pretty standard in > the enlightenment literature. > > When I had relatives, > > friends or patients who were dying, in pain and suffering, I > > suffered as well. I felt pain. That is the nature of empathy. > > And most I know who are dying make a peace with it and there > > is a serenity with the pain and suffering. But there is still > > pain and suffering and sometimes it overwhelms. > > Not sure what your point is here. Theoretically, in > enlightenment, the pain would never overwhelm (or > "overshadow") the bliss and serenity. So says the pitch. My point is that suffering is part of life and hopefully you make your peace. You don't need enlightenment or TM to do so. For years I worked with people who were in pain and suffering as I worked for a cancer clinic. My patients suffered and most, whether they survived their cancer or were terminal, found peace none the less. TM not required. And I have never ever ever met a meditator who appears to have gone beyond suffering. I know several long term Sidhas, most of whom only irregularly practice their program and can be described as ordinary people living ordinary lives. But two of them are such TBs that I cannot have a coherent conversation with them but they do seem to be very flat in their emotional responses to others. "Oh mom died? I have to get back to Mother Divine."" Don't tell me anything bad, I don't want to hear." Neither have managed to hold down a job for years. (Though they may have ended up that way even without TM, who knows.) For them, their world revolves around their own enlightenment and they lost something in the process. As far as your own suffering decreasing over time, it may be just the wisdom of experience and the passage of years. Again, who knows. > > > <snip> > > > > The greatest flaw of MMY appears to me to be his > > > > lack of empathy. > > > > > > He spent his entire adult life attempting to show > > > people how to live their lives in fullness without > > > being overshadowed by its necessary pain, and he > > > lacks empathy?? > > > > Yes, I stand by my statement. If I have some time, I will > > discuss this more later. But folks, I sure would love to > > see some quotes from him that illustrate empathy. I sure > > would love to see some quotes where he expresses sadness or > > expresses sympathy for the suffering of others. > > Before I spend the time to dig some up, do you require > these quotes to be about individuals, or can they be more > general statements about human suffering? As both Curtis and I have said, expressions about human suffering say nothing about his empathy. How did he treat those around him? >
