--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> , "seekliberation" <seekliberat...@...> wrote: > > Offworld, > > quick question, i'm not very full of knowledge on the subject of socialized medicine vs. capitalist/insurance form of medical care. So it's hard for me to have a real opinion here. I only have one observation, and it is based on my own limited experience of my family and employment for the last 17 years. (you being from Europe where there is socialized medicine may be more knowledgeable). > > In addition, I remember most co-workers that I worked with over the years having the same issue. No health or dental insurance, but they always had money to spend on a dimebag, or quarterbag of weed every weekend. They always had a case of beer in the fridge, new rims on their cars, and badass stereos in their cars. > These days, people I run into from my old high school or I hear about other friends and family who don't have medical insurance. But what they do have is an IPOD, cable TV, a rather nice car, home entertainment system, etc.... the list goes on. >
Hi "Seeklib" ;-) Everyone in Britain has health care, dental care, AND... i-pods, TV's, nice cars etc. In fact, about 1/4 of the cars in the US would not be allowed on British roads because they are too rusty, faulty, and clunky. And everyone has a roof over their head in Britain if they want it, and public transport in Europe is fairly cheap and all over the place You have tent cities in LA, and more poverty in the US than I have ever seen anywhere in Europe. Not only that, many countries did not get into as big a bailout as America, because they already had safety nets in place for everyone (health, unemployment, travel, re-training, etc.) for when you loose a job or the economy is bad. American taxpayers forked out about 2 trillion dollars to keep the system going - including poorly functioning corporations. That is not socialism, it is communism, but you will be paying for it for years. If you are in the military, that means your military budget is going to get a lot less money too, although I know Obama will do everything to prevent Vets loosing out (Bush/Cheney would have cut them. Period.) Police forces will have less money. Education will suffer, and that, my friend, is a matter of National Security - I'm not joking. The list goes on and on. > I recently looked up the average cost of health insurance per year for an adult. It's $1800 per year, roughly. Obviously if you're a crack whore living on a freeway in a war zone during a soccer riot, you may have to add a little to that premium. >> That average cost sounds wrong. I'm, 47, live in the US, and it is $4,800 dollars a year for me in the US, and it does not include dental - which it does in Britain. I wouldn't mind paying 2,500-3,000 a year here, but I never get sick (not even colds) - so $4000 is ok, but just a little too much for my liking. But I am not concerned about myself, I can handle it. Its other people I am concerned about. Apparently mine is low compared to the average 47 year old. If I had a family, it would probably be much more (does anyone know how much families pay?) What happens when you have kids? You will get older, which will cost WAY more than 1,800 a month - (except the government will cover for military, just like they do in communist countries... and that is a good thing that military are covered.) > My theory is that 'most' Americans who don't have health insurance don't have it because their priorities are fucked up. Or better put, their thirst for entertainment outweighs their own long term well being. >> I disagree. There are good families who lost jobs, lost houses, and are on the streets and have no health insurance. And that situation tends to spiral down, when there is no real safety net. And let me repeat, in Britain we have socialized medicine, but everyone still does ALL those good things you talked about, and more. We tend not to have as many second homes as Americans, I'll admit that. <<And therefore, there is no political agenda that will fix this situation. As Ron White put it "You Can't Fix Stupid". As I always say at the end, I know there are some rare exceptions, but I have seen very few(like blind or deaf people who can't work, or retarded people, permenantly crippled, etc...). >> THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT: Generally speaking, as far as I understand it, even if you do not have insurance, you will get treated in the US if you are in an accident or have a heart attack, etc. (You may be forced to pay for it later though.) But if you get ling term sick and have any money, you can be sued for the costs, loose your house. loose everything. A long illness can BANKRUPT even RICH families.: "Medical bills underlie 60 percent of U.S. bankrupts: study": "More than 75 percent of these bankrupt families had health insurance but still were overwhelmed by their medical debts, the team at Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University reported in the American Journal of Medicine." http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090604/ts_nm/us_healthcare_bankruptcy <http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090604/ts_nm/us_healthcare_bankruptcy> Even if you do well financially, a sick family member could bankrupt you. That would never happen in Britain. > Now keep in mind, I've been surrounded by less educated people than what most here are on FFL, to include you Offworld. Also, even though i've traveled through over 40 countries, I never lived there. So I don't really know what's best or not. But I still tend to lean towards the philosophy that 'most' Americans who have fucked up lives are that way due to poor decision making and lack of personal growth and wisdom, as opposed to the idea that we have a purely evil government. >> No system is perfect, but I grew up with everyone's health care taken care of. Period. It is completely unnatural and barbaric to me that some people don't even go for care for fear of costs, others can go bankrupt. My Dad was a well paid air traffic controller, and he never complained about the tiny amount taken off his pay check for health insurance for all people (he complained a lot about local property taxes - which were about the same as most places in the US.) However, the whole argument is irrelevant unless we can get corporate profit out of health care. That is killing the system. Doctors have their hands tied by these greedy bastards. Many people are getting given expensive treatments they don't even need, because the corporations - (who do not properly pay their taxes in the US - in other words they are stealing out of your pocket - right now ) -- they have the system sewn up. They are lobbying (ie. paying people money to threaten politicians others with finacial and court consequences) - - so that they can keep their disgusting profits. They don't care about your health. OffWorld > Just wonder what your input is, along with anyone else. > > seekliberation >
