On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 04:49 AM, Max Horn wrote:
At 20:14 Uhr -0500 11.01.2003, Bill Bumgarner wrote:3) More and more Unix related tools have native Aqua ports available. tk and wx immediately come to mind. Film-gimp on the applications front. With PyObjC, CamelBones, and other bridge type technologies coming along, I'm sure there will be more. Many of these require or, at the least, are designed to use an app wrapper.
Bill: wx-mac IS in fink!
If something is a proper mac application, there is no reason in my eyes why one would want to install it with Fink. E.g. Film-gimp (though I never tested it, I am just assuming now it is so).filmgimp's in fink actually, it is still X11/CLI based since gtk-osx isnt done yet.
Stuff like "native" tcl/tk can usually be supported by system-* packages.The reason i bring up "focus" always in this argument is because IMO it is a stronger argument than your "logical" or "technical" arguments which don't hold much water. :)
I don't see how supporting the *native* version of something like tk or wx would be a loss of focus for Fink. If anything, it tightens the focus -- it continues the fine tradition of Fink providing highly tuned, ultra-compatible, builds of Unix/Open Source projects to the OS X community.I didn't bring up the "focus" part, and I think it's realy only tangential to this discussion. It's no "focus" thingy that makes me oppose including all sorts of .apps, it's techincal and logical reasons, see above.
"user can move it"? well uh, don't do that. As Bill mentions, apps work fine in /sw/Applications. If they are owned by root, they will stay there. We already tell the user not to move things out of /sw, i dont see why they would start doing it now. *IF* the user desires the flexibility to move these apps around, they can install them without fink.
Keep Fink Focused is a better argument, if we accepted every .app, we could rapidly become overwhelmed with .app things. We focus on ported unix software. Most ported unix software isn't ported to an .app. However, once something is finally fully ported, should it be removed from fink? That seems silly.
I think we should accept SOME more .apps in fink on a case by case basis with guidelines like - must be open source, must be related to unix port in some way.
Things like "Fire" which is open source but not related at all, should not end up in fink.
darwinports allows ports to create .apps, and trusts the user not to move them. I'm starting to agree. We even have 2 apps in fink that ALREADY use this principle, XDarwin and aquaterm. Aquaterm isn't even open source! But it is a perfect example of the kind of apps we SHOULD accept. Things that work closely with fink installed software. (aquaterm wraps gnuplot.) FinkCommander obviously is another example.
Native tk and wx can go in fink already, irrespective of the .app decision, they are libraries. Nothing is stopping you from making a native tk package, and a native wx package is already in fink, as are native SDL and native fltk.
Of course, there is nothing stopping Bill or anyone else from setting up their own fink .deb repository. All you need to do is tell users to add the URL to /sw/etc/apt/sources.list.
I bet we could add fink support for 3rd party fink source (.info file) repositories as well.. hmm.. Obviously you would need a cvs repo for that. It might be a good idea for us to put the fink CVS URL and username into fink.conf anyway.
Ok, i just had another idea... to fully support movable .apps in /sw/Applications, we could create a carbon ALIAS file in /Applications to our installed .app. The user could move that app alias wherever they wanted. RangerRick thinks we could even HIDE the /sw/.Applications folder with a dot folder so the user won't touch it in the finder.
-Ben
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