Of course, Owen, we could be asking the same thing about the "good" Catholic community regarding all the years of child sex abuse and coverups in that religion.
--Doug On Sep 14, 2012 4:30 PM, "Owen Densmore" <o...@backspaces.net> wrote: > My interest is not the extremists, but the fact that the leaders and > majority do not protest against them, do not make themselves heard. > > So it is about religion, but it could equally be about the NRA or racism > or human rights or whatever. Where the majority is silent. And the > leaders do not lead. > > Not that I don't understand the religious issues, and your clear points > against them (and with which I am sympathetic), but that I'm looking at > another, broader issue that seems to appear not only in religions but many > other areas. > > Is it not striking to you that the leaders and majority are silent? We > know many Muslims here in Santa Fe who are sane and gracious. They deplore > the extreme events. But they have not yet found a platform for inserting > Islam, the Good Parts, and their deploring the extremists, into the public > discourse. > > -- Owen > > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Douglas Roberts <d...@parrot-farm.net>wrote: > >> Let's see if I understand you correctly, Owen. >> >> There are a bunch of fundamentalist Islamists all up in arms shouting >> "Allahu Akhbar" whilst burning down our embassies and killing our diplomats >> because there is a film out that is derogatory of the Muslim religion. >> >> And this is not about religion? >> >> I don't see it. >> >> Or you don't see it. >> >> What I do see is that there is one very large disconnect on this >> particular issue. >> >> --Doug >> >> On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Owen Densmore <o...@backspaces.net>wrote: >> >>> I do not believe this to be a religious issue at all. The question is >>> of groups and institutions. >>> >>> When a faction of a group becomes apparently insane, do we not expect >>> the entire group, its leaders and majority, to speak up and to mend? >>> >>> When civil rights were an issue in the south, many of us (I was at >>> Georgia Tech) spoke up, and indeed many churches of all stripes did so. >>> Many NRA members also speak up about the extreme position the organization >>> takes. Examples abound. And yes, I consider this a Complexity domain, >>> much like Miller's Applause model. >>> >>> Isn't this possibly a cultural issue? Possibly regional? The largest >>> Muslim population is not Libya or Egypt or even all of the middle east, >>> its Indonesia. They do not appear to have this issue. >>> >>> So my question stands as Kofi stated: >>> "Where are the leaders? Where is the Majority? Nobody speaks up." >>> NOT the religious leaders but the leaders of the culture in which the >>> religion lies. >>> >>> And Hussein, forgive me, but your inward religious stance has nothing to >>> do with speaking out against injustice. It is not a religious issue, but a >>> civic, cultural one. >>> >>> -- Owen >>> >>> ============================================================ >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Doug Roberts >> drobe...@rti.org >> d...@parrot-farm.net >> http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins >> <http://parrot-farm.net/Second-Cousins> >> 505-455-7333 - Office >> 505-670-8195 - Cell >> >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
