On Wed, 23 Oct 2002, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> I agree with all of Henri's comments below. Apache commons as a project has > nothing to offer Jakarta commons as far as I can see. In fact it has Thanks Stephen. > disbenefits by > - 'stealing' a name already in use In the interests of diplomacy I think this is a bit harsh. The name does continue to raise important issue and I think the board may have made a screw-up here from a User point of view. We've already seen that there is a feeling among committers [myself included] that users see jakarta as different to apache, especially within the java-space. Apache Commons to a user will simply sound like the Apache version of Jakarta Commons. ie) Housing perl/php/C/tcl code. If any Java migrates over there it will increase confusion. So Apache Commons seems to make sense as a name in two instances: 1) It only houses what can be thought of as Apache [note, I'm using Apache to mean the non-java parts of the ASF. ie) Apache !+ ASF. Apache and Jakarta are two brands of the ASF.] 2) Jakarta Commons migrates over as a whole. Ignoring the community and thinking of the user community, these seem the only options that will actually improve things. Apache may be based on a community, but its success is measured in its user community. > - forcing cross-language issues when its just not useful > > There is perhaps a case for a loose federation of commons-like projects > cross-language. But in reality I can't imagine who would actually be > interested. I could see a great case for a project containing mod_xxx for Apache web server. Would be a lot of commonality I would imagine. Afaik, these are all in httpd anyway though. [mod_perl/pmod_php/mod_tcl having their own. why no mod_ruby/mod_python etc?] Might help mod_jk to be a part of Apache-httpd and Tomcat too. > > So ATM, I can't see any reason why I would vote +1 to moving Jakarta Commons > into Apache Commons. Or perhaps I don't get a choice? All the emails seem to suggest that mandating such things isn't the ASF way. THe reasons I have for moving to Apache Commons so far are: 1) Jakarta Commons gets closer to the ASF and understands more about the ASF way [yep, I'm stopping calling it the Apache way as I think that's divisive. ] As someone who has been existing a bit too far from the center of the ASF [ie somewhere out in the wildlands] being more aware of what goes on in the ASF interests me. 2) C# is beginning to sneak around at Jakarta. C# Commons would share a lot of interest with Jakarta Commons I believe. Same if a Ruby Commons is started or another language that has some conceptual bond with Java. Of the current ASF languages, only PHP has any real bonding with Java, and as JSP [and others] are competitors to PHP, there's probably more antagonism. 3) Something like httpclient could gain from bonding with APR's serf [if I understand it properly]. A minor gain that could be create in another way anyway. 4) Apache Commons may not be server-side only. This might be enticing to some developers. 5) Dictatorship, although it's not the ASF way. there are some things we would all like at Jakarta Commons, but democracy stops us. A common code standard, a common build standard [ant, maven, ant-collections, centipede?], a common website format, cross-sub-project administration. A dictating board could provide that [yes, community damage would occur]. Hen
