On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 4:19 PM Space A. <reexist...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The discussion of whether or not generics will be added to Go has been > going on for more than a decade. > That's a lie. There has never been a question of "add it or not". It was > always "we will add them" sooner or later. > It is somewhat amusing, though ultimately frustrating, that for ten years people where misquoting the Go team to say they categorically reject generics and now that a decision has been made to add them, they are being misquoted as saying they will *definitely* add them, sooner or later. Both are not true. The stance has always been (demonstrably <https://github.com/golang/go/blob/dd64f86e0874804d0ec5b7138dafc28b51f61c12/doc/go_lang_faq.html#L170> since before the open sourcing of Go) that generics *may* come at some point, *if they can figure out a way that gives value commensurate with their complexity.* This messaging has been consistent. Even for this specific push (which started with the contracts design) whenever Ian, Russ, Robert or anyone else on the Go team has been asked if generics *will* be added, the response has been a consistent "if we find an approach that gives value commensurate with their complexity. We are hopeful that this one does, but we will see". The first time anyone has actually said generics *will* be added was when the proposal was marked as accepted <https://github.com/golang/go/issues/43651#issuecomment-776944155>. And I wouldn't condone the use of "always" for "since about a month ago" any more than I would condone "they ignored arguments" to mean "they disagreed with arguments". If you insist on calling me a liar again, I would appreciate it if you could provide a source showing that anything of what I wrote here is untrue. Though, to be frank, I don't really think there is much point to this discussion either way - you have already demonstrated in the past that you are at best difficult to have a productive conversation with. > > > > сб, 13 мар. 2021 г. в 17:31, 'Axel Wagner' via golang-nuts < > golang-nuts@googlegroups.com>: > >> I want to re-iterate: The discussion of whether or not generics will be >> added to Go has been going on for more than a decade. All arguments from >> all sides have gotten fair consideration. A decision was reached. >> >> You might not agree with that decision. But saying that "there are no >> arguments" or that "arguments have been ignored" is simply and demonstrably >> false. I understand that it can be difficult to accept that other qualified >> people can come to different conclusions from you, based on the same >> available data. But it's simply going to happen. So please be mindful of >> how you communicate. And ideally, don't try to re-open this discussion with >> the same arguments that have already been heard. It took enough time and >> energy from everyone to reach a decision once. >> >> On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 3:19 PM Space A. <reexist...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> HI Martin, >>> >>> as Jan already explained, you're not only writing code, you also reading >>> it. And you have to understand what's written. At the same time you're not >>> just coding in Go, you're using the whole ecosystem including libraries and >>> tools. So the mantra "just don't use if you don't like'' does not work, >>> every Go programmer will be forced to use generics, to read and at the end, >>> to write that code. >>> >>> Second question you may ask - yes it will be overused, in fact in the >>> very first year everything will be flooded with bad code. Because it's a >>> new toy and biggest change to the language in years, because it's a "smart" >>> way of doing things (we are mature programmers, aren't we?), because "type >>> safety" and "performance" and so on so forth. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> сб, 13 мар. 2021 г. в 15:45, Martin Schnabel <m...@mb0.org>: >>> >>>> (sorry space a, i didn't reply to list) >>>> >>>> hi alex and space a. >>>> >>>> as far as i know there is no reason that anybody has to write code with >>>> generics when they are available. therefor i really don't understand >>>> the >>>> negative mails to this list. >>>> >>>> do you also want others not to use them? how would that help you? could >>>> you please explain to me your personal gain if generics are not added >>>> to >>>> go and not available to me and other users? many users have valid use >>>> cases for generics and custom code generation to deal with them now. >>>> >>>> i personally never had a reason to use imaginary numbers in go, they >>>> are >>>> however part of the language as literals and accompanied by special >>>> built-ins. should i care, do you? >>>> >>>> please explain >>>> >>>> On 13.03.21 12:34, Space A. wrote: >>>> > There is no rationale. They decided, and they implemented. No one >>>> from >>>> > Go team ever took the argument against it seriously because >>>> "community" >>>> > demands, blabla. And because Russ Cox with friends written an >>>> academic >>>> > paper so this is now a question of pure science. Write your own and >>>> they >>>> > could listen. (No) >>>> > >>>> > суббота, 13 марта 2021 г. в 10:07:44 UTC+3, alex-coder: >>>> > >>>> > Hello, >>>> > >>>> > Thank you for the answers. >>>> > Now I have something to read. :-) >>>> > >>>> > So, sorry for my English. >>>> > Personally, I would add a dynamic dispatching into GO >>>> > and left language without generic in order to keep simplicity for >>>> GO >>>> > and to make life of the applied programmers easier :-) >>>> > >>>> > What I'm looking for is the rationale behind the technical >>>> decision >>>> > to understand why the sort of decision has been taken. >>>> > >>>> > Thank you again for the answers. >>>> > >>>> > On Saturday, March 13, 2021 at 7:15:06 AM UTC+3 Ian Lance Taylor >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 7:31 AM alex-coder < >>>> a.gus...@gmail.com> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > Hello again, >>>> > > I apologize for being so intrusive. >>>> > > Where it is possible to read about the evaluations of labor >>>> > and complexity for >>>> > > GO itself for different implementations to introduce >>>> generic >>>> > in GO ? >>>> > >>>> > LIke others, I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but >>>> perhaps >>>> > you >>>> > want to look at >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/refs/heads/master/design/generics-implementation-stenciling.md >>>> > < >>>> https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/refs/heads/master/design/generics-implementation-stenciling.md >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/refs/heads/master/design/generics-implementation-dictionaries.md >>>> > < >>>> https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/refs/heads/master/design/generics-implementation-dictionaries.md >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/refs/heads/master/design/generics-implementation-gcshape.md >>>> > < >>>> https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/refs/heads/master/design/generics-implementation-gcshape.md >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Ian >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> > Groups "golang-nuts" group. >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send >>>> > an email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> > <mailto:golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> > >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/8abb7704-ae60-4085-a7d7-0a8f7534e35dn%40googlegroups.com >>>> > < >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/8abb7704-ae60-4085-a7d7-0a8f7534e35dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer >>>> >. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>> Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/golang-nuts/lC9Z9VZXPdM/unsubscribe. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>> golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/c67e637e-6eea-de85-1d43-e2d775424044%40mb0.org >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "golang-nuts" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CADKwOTedhgWhxdRgiocwfWumghD5eBWe8AvL0HUmxN1pB-LUDA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CADKwOTedhgWhxdRgiocwfWumghD5eBWe8AvL0HUmxN1pB-LUDA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/golang-nuts/lC9Z9VZXPdM/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CAEkBMfGbr-1g2NgpZryQeFWMgDzEnwYTfTGMaorWBV34jgcELw%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/CAEkBMfGbr-1g2NgpZryQeFWMgDzEnwYTfTGMaorWBV34jgcELw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "golang-nuts" group. 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