Very well said. > On Mar 15, 2021, at 7:04 PM, Jeremy French <ibi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I was really trying not to weigh in here, mostly because it's a decision > that has been decided, so there's not a lot of point in continuing the > discussion, and yesterday it seemed like the thread would die, yet... it > continues. > > For context, I was against the generics proposal, primarily because it would > make *my* life more complicated, while not providing *me* that much benefit. > I raised the concerns I had, especially in regards to the "if you don't like > it, don't use it" arguments. I participated in a couple conversations on this > mailing list. In the end, I was fairly convinced that there were others in > the community (and the community as a whole) who would benefit from the > change far more than what it would cost me, and resigned myself to the change. > > All of that is just to establish my bona fides. If I were inclined to be > biased on this topic, it would be against the Go team, not in their favor. > > And yet, I can say unequivocally that any suggestion that the Go team has > railroaded this proposal through, or has ignored the concerns of its user > base, is pure fiction. Every single concern or question I've seen raised has > been addressed respectfully and at face value - even, I would say - several > concerns or complaints on this side of the argument that perhaps reasonably > could have been scoffed at or dismissed as just stupid. They have been > respectful and attentive at every turn. I don't necessarily agree or like > the decision they made, but these character assassinations against them or > implications that they are subject to corruption from their corporate parent > have no supporting evidence that I've seen, including any presented in this > thread. > > It seems pretty clear that they are passionate about the health and longevity > of the project, and are in the unenviable position of having to make a > decision that is guaranteed to make some people angry no matter what they > decide. But in the end, it is their call to make, and they made it the best > way they could think of to do so. You can't ask any more than that. > >> On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 6:14:36 PM UTC-4 Ian Lance Taylor wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 3:11 PM atd...@gmail.com <atd...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > I am in favor of the proposal but I think that accounting for popularity >> > votes is not a good measure of things. >> > A lot of people are at various stages of their technical journey in >> > computer science and engineering and there has to be a weight given to the >> > more technical opinions that is not reflected in the github >> > upvote/downvote system. >> > At one point, everyone would have upvoted that the earth was flat. >> > >> > Just a note in passing :) >> >> Yes. I am not saying that the proposal was adopted because it had >> good support. I am arguing against the suggestion that the proposal >> should not have been adopted because it had a lot of critics. >> >> Ian >> >> >> > On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 11:03:50 PM UTC+1 Ian Lance Taylor wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 5:08 AM Space A. <reexi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > For example, the multiple proposals that flowed out of >> >> > https://go.googlesource.com/proposal/+/master/design/go2draft-error-handling-overview.md. >> >> > >> >> > None of them have been adopted. >> >> > >> >> > I remember what was happening to "try" error handling proposal. It was >> >> > withdrawn only because of active resistance by the community. >> >> > >> >> > And what's happened to a new "generics" proposal, it also got a lot of >> >> > critics but was "accepted" in less than a month after formal >> >> > publication on github. As Russ said "No change in consensus". What does >> >> > it mean? Who are these people who can change the consensus? How was it >> >> > measured? A few days after Russ locked it, so nobody can even say a >> >> > word against it if they wanted. So it looks very much that company >> >> > management learned from "try" proposal. >> >> >> >> The design draft was put up for discussion for months before it became >> >> a formal proposal. It was not new. >> >> >> >> The formal proposal (https://golang.org/issue/43651) got 1784 thumbs >> >> up and 123 thumbs down (and ten "confused"). Yes, there were critics. >> >> But I think it is fair to say that the proposal has far more >> >> supporters than critics. >> >> >> >> The "no change in consensus" comment refers to the discussion after >> >> the proposal was moved to "likely accept" status: >> >> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/43651#issuecomment-772744198. >> >> After it was marked as "likely accept", there was no change to the >> >> consensus that it should be accepted. (Note that the "likely accept" >> >> comment got 60 thumbs up and 0 thumbs down (and one "confused").) >> >> >> >> None of this is anything like the "try" proposal >> >> (https://golang.org/issue/32437), which had 318 thumbs up and 794 >> >> thumbs down (and 132 "confused"). >> >> >> >> Ian >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "golang-nuts" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> > email to golang-nuts...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/932a39b7-be1b-4c15-b7c8-f99fce730b0en%40googlegroups.com. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "golang-nuts" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/6a690d7a-1f20-42d3-8528-94b80891d239n%40googlegroups.com.
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