On Nov 4, 3:09 pm, Peter Recore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What would really make this conversation interesting would be a
> nontrivial example app that someone had written and deployed on both
> systems, to see where the gotcha's are, and at what levels of demand
> you really need to worry about various scaling problems.
I would be interested to hear from some EC2 users on this list also!
> image. On the other hand, you could have the entire mysql community
> to draw help from if you had a pure mysql question.
This is a huge point. Not only can you draw from all the communities
of existing developers, you have access to the droves of existing
libraries written for all those mature platform that you can
leverage. Say you need to integrate a Forum, content management
system, billing / shopping cart, etc. Whereas with GAE you are
writing your own usually. (And from the numerous posts on how to
create a 'Web Counter' with GAE, its evident that some of the normally
simple tasks are not so simple.
(not trying to slam GAE, just hoping to find some good valid opinions
pro-GAE, especially technical reasons!)
>
> -peter
>
> On Nov 4, 2:48 pm, sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > There is a point which you are missing here. Firing up more images in
> > > EC2 does not makes your application scalable.
>
> > It seems to depend on the image you choose - looks like images are
> > available that co-operate and automatically load balance at they
> > startup and autodetect each other.
>
> > Probably the same way the Google app cluster works - except instead of
> > someone in Google adding nodes you can do it yourself.
>
> > > There is lots and lots
> > > of other issues here. With EC2 you have to use S3 etc etc.
> > > there might be some point to consider working with GAE but in short I
> > > think there is much more to do if you want a scalable application in
> > > EC2.
>
> > Remember there is a lot to do to make a scalable app in GAE also.
> > There are numerous posts on this list where people can't even get a
> > simple 'web counter' to work. The counter-argument (no pun intended)
> > is that the GAE app will scale in the long run due to this 'additional
> > effort' that we have to go through. So ec2 and GAE both require
> > 'effort' to make something scalable. In GAE is via painful
> > limitations in Python, in EC2 its by choosing images....
>
> > If only someone at Google would stumble across Xen (http://www.xen.org/)
> > which is free/opensource, the tech that Amazon uses for
> > EC2 and port it to their own 'Googleware', and offer some free logins
> > to that system, it would be a true competitor!!
>
> > > On Nov 4, 2:10 pm, sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Of course, you can have someone cook the raw meat to dinner. There's
> > > > > no actual difference in the end.
>
> > > > These were my thoughts too... if its the same difference in the end...
> > > > I'm looking for reasons as to why one would stick with GAE long-term.
>
> > > > > The difficulty to EC2 for small project is the scaling part, you need
> > > > > either buy or write your own management code for an almost real
> > > > > cluster minus hardware. You need to monitor server load, and start new
> > > > > EC2 instance when load gets high and terminate extra unused servers.
> > > > > You need to take care way more possible exceptions then GAE.
>
> > > > It seems there are images you can choose for EC2 which automatically
> > > > load balance/scale when you boot new instances...
>
> > > > > On Nov 4, 1:39 pm, sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Point taken, in the scenario that you might have to make your own
> > > > > > image, possibly...
>
> > > > > > But assume that someone signs up for EC2, and just chooses an
> > > > > > existing
> > > > > > image with Python in it. Really there isn't much cooking involved
> > > > > > correct? You should have a working server up pretty quickly...
>
> > > > > > (a few other considerations: within GAE your serverside RAM can be
> > > > > > invalidated at-random, as well as the memcache... and we're limited
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > using a sortof limited Datastore, rather than the full RDBMS you
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > have in an EC2 image) Maybe a bit like a free dinner without a
> > > > > > fork?
> > > > > > =)
>
> > > > > > On Nov 4, 1:19 pm, yejun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I feel this comparison is similar to raw meat vs cooked dinner.
>
> > > > > > > On Nov 4, 12:31 pm, sal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Just curious to hear some opinions on this - especially from
> > > > > > > > anyone
> > > > > > > > who has experience with Amazon's EC2 as well as GAE.
>
> > > > > > > > I just read a blog saying you can be up and running with EC2's
> > > > > > > > cheapest offering with no upfront cost and 79$ a month. You
> > > > > > > > get a
> > > > > > > > 'real' virtualized Linux machine with 1.7GB of ram. And by
> > > > > > > > clicking a
> > > > > > > > button (there are free graphical admin tools now), as many more
> > > > > > > > instances/images as you need will pop up instantly using a
> > > > > > > > system
> > > > > > > > image that you create to handle whatever load you have. (Your
> > > > > > > > bill
> > > > > > > > goes just up as you click into more resources).
>
> > > > > > > > There are loads of 'public' images to pick from, some include
> > > > > > > > Python
> > > > > > > > already. (Others have Java, PHP, etc). By choosing one of these
> > > > > > > > images you'll have Python running, with full root access to a
> > > > > > > > server
> > > > > > > > online that you can do whatever you like with. I guess
> > > > > > > > technically,
> > > > > > > > someone could just put the GAE SDK up on an EC2 box, with some
> > > > > > > > tweaks,
> > > > > > > > and you could almost have your GAE app running there unmodified
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > well?
>
> > > > > > > > I'm using GAE because of the zero, upfront cost currently...
> > > > > > > > this is
> > > > > > > > great for toying around with neat ideas - but for 'real world',
> > > > > > > > demanding applications... you'll eventually have to pay even
> > > > > > > > for GAE.
> > > > > > > > What do we have offered that something like EC2 doesn't?
>
> > > > > > > > Google has announced another language coming in a few months -
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > again EC2 allows to use whichever is installed in your machine
> > > > > > > > image
> > > > > > > > already - any language you can use in linux I suppose... not
> > > > > > > > sure if
> > > > > > > > its enough to keep me onboard once my app goes over its quotas
> > > > > > > > and I
> > > > > > > > have to start to pay for more.
>
> > > > > > > > looking forward to hear thoughts!
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Google App Engine" group.
To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
