It's hard for all of us. Better to be safe than sorry.
The doc content should include the license header in comment, and there
is a clear (c) at the bottom.
The license header refers to the NOTICE file.
Thanks for being conservative about this - it keeps us from getting into
trouble.
(I was just giggling about the "Database" reference...)
geir
Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
Ok, thanks.
I somehow feel dumb with anything that deals with legal - copyrights,
contracts, licenses...oh! I'd erase all excess disclaimers from our
website with pleasure :)
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:45 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated
"Additional terms from the Database" ? LOL
Just get rid of it all. Those terms are in our notice file, and that's
enough. Unicode didn't put them there, anyway.
geir
Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started.
html#Disclaimer
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/developers_guide
.html - these seem to have apache and intel copyright (can be
resolved)
+ the Unicode disclaimer.
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:14 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is
outdated
what's the link we're talking about?
Morozova, Nadezhda wrote:
What about the portions of the Unicode copyright?
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL"
is
outdated
as an intel person, you can remove an intel copyright. if it's an
ASF
copyright, you can remove that too from the document (it should be
auto-generated at the bottom anyway)
geir
Egor Pasko wrote:
On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
Ok,
I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to
get
an
initial patch for the getting started document, and we can
then
work
to
improve it.
OK, I am "watching" it
Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some
how-tos.
To summarize:
* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are
for
eclipse+drlvm page)
* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind
of
links we have"
Am I right?
[Nadya]
Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment
out
copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright
law,
not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I
desire to look at on the "getting started" page.
Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for
all
your
help.
u r welcome
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
Egor,
I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our
perceptions
of
various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial
-
it's
more
of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this
"How
to
write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM
Command-line
Args Tutorial"?
on Wikipedia:
* A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how
to
accomplish
some specific task
* A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created
for
the
purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks
yes, I mix those terms :)
As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on
another
page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a
short
howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common
options,
solving
typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc.
Does anybody volunteer to help?
let's collect the options first. To choose between them for
the
howto
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote:
Alexei,
Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not
think
ours
is
ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a
tutorial.
we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :)
So +1 for having a nice good tutorial ... one day.
If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be
happy
to
help
though.
well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for
VIM
:)
some contraversal inside me..fighting..done
let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and
then
"DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that?
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
Guys,
I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I
don't
need
the
VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful.
+1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes
Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use
Harmony
for
Harmony development. I liked that idea.
With best regards,
Alexei Fedotov,
Intel Java & XML Engineering
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote:
Nadya,
One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove
all
current
content
and write something like following:
"To the moment we got rid of all major differences from
other
Java
implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it
(here
goes
link to
readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java
VM.
For
commonly
used command-line options please look into the Wiki page
(link
to
Salikh's
page or to the document)."
What do you think?
1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :)
Thanks,
Pavel
On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
wrote:
Good day to you, Egor!
evening, dark and snowy evening :)
What do you say about the getting started doc?
I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony
operates
near
the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all
specifics
is
in
extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an
extra
HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the
page).
I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started".
So,
+1
to
Pavel
Ozhdikhin here.
BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for
improvement
from
him:
1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat
has
it
with
links to google search. We can have something as soon as
we
get
to
the
desired TLP :)
2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should
be
reported
to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something
like
"support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the
mailing
list
:)
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor
Pasko
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
wrote:
Egor,
I generally like the idea of improving navigation over
the
site
-
there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure
whether
we
need
yet another separate page for introductory/guidance
info. I
hope
the
starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly
fine.
However,
adding a link here and there to lead site visitors.
Getting started could be a more specific
project-oriented
page.
There,
you can tell people to go <link>download</link>,
<link>build</link>
the
code. After which, they can start using it just as any
other
<link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions,
see
our
<link>wiki</link> pages.
To use the vm, readers might need to use the following
options...
If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the
<link>component</link> page. If no website page
contains
an
answer
-
they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>.
.. or something like that :)
Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this
morning
I
woke
up
and looked the site structure with the eye of a
beginner.
And
could
not find any obvius flaws in the main structure.
Left-side
collection
of links is in a very good shape, good for
beginner-level
navigation
and contains almost all links you listed here.
This was a really refreshing morning :)
I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they
feel
about
the
site. And will report back, if I find something.
Refreshing morning is over, now back to work..
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Egor
Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin
wrote:
On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Egor,
+1 for
Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
collection
of
links
to
the
main website and other resources with short
descriptions
("Site
Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable
floating
around in
the
web.
We already have one page having links to the resources
about
DRLVM:
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html
Why do you think we need another one?
because it is only DRLVM.
I think of something like "site map", a collection of
links.
Short
descriptions to some basic ones.
+1 for
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
(omitting
the
word
"supported" intentionally)
Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only
options?
What
about
JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but
we
have
separate
docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say?
I think we can describe basic options for every
component
there.
Only
those
that might be interesting for any user. The place for
other
options
is
in
the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a
component.
I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can
possibly
be
grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group
them
by
use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance
for
me.
So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out.
I see it like HOWTOs. For example:
"-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler"
"-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler"
"-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events"
The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know
about
JITs
switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate
problems,
which
helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster.
Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly
used
by
me. If
many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up
quickly
and
make
a good (really useful) list of popular options. How
about
that?
BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a
kind
of
limit
Thanks,
Pavel
Thank you,
Nadya Morozova
-----Original Message-----
From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Egor
Pasko
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova
wrote:
All,
I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of
outdated
Getting
Started document. However, I'd not hurry to
eliminate
the
page
as
such.
We might reconsider some of its contents, change
structure,
and
update
individual bits, but please think carefully before
removing
the
page.
I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is
aimed
to
help
a
newbie
work with our vm. I know that many primarily
interested
in
other
things
- conformance, architecture, internal specifics.
However,
we
should
also
think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started
is
now
the
*only*
doc
that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell
people
how
to
download
and build, but almost nothing about how to run and
configure
(with
the
exception of EM/JIT).
My suggestion would be to think of what you want
to
tell
people
about
usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And
store
this
info
on
the
page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and
support
in
this
burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be
inobjective
and
emotional :)
Nadya,
I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony
knows
how
to
use
J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we
are
happy
that
all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone.
So, I vote for:
* removing the "Getting Started" (also because of
irritating
windows
screenshots:)
* preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM"
(omitting
the
word
"supported" intentionally)
Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a
collection
of
links
to
the
main website and other resources with short
descriptions
("Site
Map"
or something) so that people are comfortable
floating
around in
the
web.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mikhail Fursov
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM
To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting
started
with
DRL"
is
outdated
It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's
hard
to
support
it
:)
More problems:
1) -Xem options are obsolete.
2) -Xjit options are also obsolete.
3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users
expect
Harmony
VM is
able
to run the same apps as RI..
?
On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hello all,
I've read through the "Getting Started with
DRL<
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
.
html
"
document on the Harmony web and found it
completely
outdated,
for
example:
- the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM
- eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete -
we
don't
need
them
anymore
to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM
the
same
way
as
with
any
other
VM.
- We don't need to set PATH and
LD_LIBRARY_PATH
anymore,
at
least
on
Windows/MSVC
- ij was renamed to java
We took a big step to unification with other
Java
VMs
and
now
we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse,
for
example.
After
removing
all irrelevant info the document would contain
only
the
list
of
command-line
options. I think we can move this list to a
separate
document
(Wiki,
Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting
Started"
itself.
Any opinions?
Thanks,
Pavel
<
http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started
.
html
--
Mikhail Fursov
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
--
Egor Pasko
