On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: > >-----Original Message----- > >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko > >Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:40 PM > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is > >outdated > > > >On the 0x220 day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: > >> Ok, > >> I'll use http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HARMONY-2150 to get an > >> initial patch for the getting started document, and we can then work > to > >> improve it. > > > >OK, I am "watching" it > > > >> Let's make it a short page with links to wiki and maybe some how-tos. > > > >To summarize: > >* we agreed that there will be no eclipse screenshots (they are for > > eclipse+drlvm page) > >* we agreed that there should be something like "see what kind of > > links we have" > > > >Am I right? > > [Nadya] > Yop, quite right. An additional enhancement would be to comment out > copyrights and update info that is incorrect.
remove these annoyed substances? I am not an expert in copyright law, not sure we can remove them. But copyright notices are not what I desire to look at on the "getting started" page. > Not sure I'll fix everything, but can give a start. Thanks for all your > help. u r welcome > > > >> Thank you, > >> Nadya Morozova > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko > >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:10 AM > >> To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" is > >> outdated > >> > >> On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: > >> > Egor, > >> > I think we're mixing things up a bit, or at least our perceptions > of > >> > various docs. I'd not call what you're suggesting a tutorial - it's > >> more > >> > of a howto doc, right? We are lucky to have Salikh write this "How > to > >> > write a GC?" Doc - do you mean something similar for "DRLVM > >> Command-line > >> > Args Tutorial"? > >> > >> on Wikipedia: > >> * A _how-to_ is an informal, often short, description of how to > >> accomplish > >> some specific task > >> * A _tutorial_ is a document, software, or other media created for > the > >> purpose of instruction for any of a wide variety of tasks > >> > >> yes, I mix those terms :) > >> > >> > As suggested earlier, we can store drlvm+eclipse specifics on > another > >> > page = see JIRA 2009. cmd options reference is on wiki, but a short > >> > howto will be marvelous - illustrating usage of common options, > >> solving > >> > typical problems by using our vm correctly, etc. > >> > Does anybody volunteer to help? > >> > >> let's collect the options first. To choose between them for the howto > >> > >> > Thank you, > >> > Nadya Morozova > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko > >> > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 4:06 PM > >> > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with DRL" > is > >> > outdated > >> > > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: > >> > > Alexei, > >> > > Tutorials might be fine for mature projects, but I do not think > ours > >> > is > >> > > ready for a big flow of users yet, that would require a tutorial. > >> > > >> > we _are_ mature for a small tutorial :) > >> > > >> > > So +1 for having a nice good tutorial ... one day. > >> > > If there are volunteers to write the tutorial now, I'd be happy > to > >> > help > >> > > though. > >> > > >> > well, actually, I love tutorials too, especially the one for VIM :) > >> > some contraversal inside me..fighting..done > >> > > >> > let's then say "A Short Eclipse Tutorial with Harmony", and then > >> > "DRLVM Command-line Args Tutorial". Howabout that? > >> > > >> > > Thank you, > >> > > Nadya Morozova > >> > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: Fedotov, Alexei A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:40 PM > >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> > > Subject: RE: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with > >> DRL" > >> > is > >> > > outdated > >> > > > >> > > Guys, > >> > > > >> > > I like good tutorials. I learned VIM using a tutorial. I don't > need > >> > the > >> > > VIM tutorial any longer, but at the beginning it was useful. > >> > > > >> > > +1 for maintain Getting Started as is with minor changes > >> > > > >> > > Why Eclipse was chosen for the tutorial? Our goal was to use > Harmony > >> > for > >> > > Harmony development. I liked that idea. > >> > > > >> > > With best regards, > >> > > Alexei Fedotov, > >> > > Intel Java & XML Engineering > >> > > > >> > > >-----Original Message----- > >> > > >From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor Pasko > >> > > >Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 1:29 PM > >> > > >To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started with > DRL" > >> is > >> > > >outdated > >> > > > > >> > > >On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin wrote: > >> > > >> Nadya, > >> > > >> > >> > > >> One more proposal about "Getting Started": let's remove all > >> current > >> > > >content > >> > > >> and write something like following: > >> > > >> > >> > > >> "To the moment we got rid of all major differences from other > >> Java > >> > > >> implementations, so to use DRLVM you can just build it (here > goes > >> > > link to > >> > > >> readme with build instructions) and run as any other Java VM. > For > >> > > >commonly > >> > > >> used command-line options please look into the Wiki page (link > to > >> > > >Salikh's > >> > > >> page or to the document)." > >> > > >> > >> > > >> What do you think? > >> > > > > >> > > >1 page to hold only 4 lines of text? :) > >> > > > > >> > > >> Thanks, > >> > > >> Pavel > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> On 10 Nov 2006 14:29:59 +0600, Egor Pasko > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova wrote: > >> > > >> > > Good day to you, Egor! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > evening, dark and snowy evening :) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > What do you say about the getting started doc? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I expressed it recently. General idea is that Harmony > operates > >> > near > >> > > >> > the same as other JSE implementations. Almost all specifics > is > >> in > >> > > >> > extra options which we started collecting on Wiki for an > extra > >> > > >> > HOWTO-like page (BTW, thanks to Salikh for starting the > page). > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I believe, it is time to remove the "Getting Started". So, > +1 > >> to > >> > > Pavel > >> > > >> > Ozhdikhin here. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > BTW, I asked my dad to look at the website. Ideas for > >> improvement > >> > > from > >> > > >> > him: > >> > > >> > 1) site-local search is useful for a beginner. Hm, Tomcat > has > >> it > >> > > with > >> > > >> > links to google search. We can have something as soon as we > get > >> > to > >> > > the > >> > > >> > desired TLP :) > >> > > >> > 2) it is not obvious that site misprints/problems should be > >> > > reported > >> > > >> > to the mailing list. Commercial websites have something like > >> > > >> > "support/suggestions mailto". We can point mailto to the > >> mailing > >> > > list > >> > > >:) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Thank you, > >> > > >> > > Nadya Morozova > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > >> > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor > >> Pasko > >> > > >> > > Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 8:55 AM > >> > > >> > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started > with > >> > DRL" > >> > > is > >> > > >> > > outdated > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > On the 0x21D day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova > wrote: > >> > > >> > > > Egor, > >> > > >> > > > I generally like the idea of improving navigation over > the > >> > site > >> > > - > >> > > >> > > > there's never too much of that. However, I am not sure > >> > whether > >> > > we > >> > > >need > >> > > >> > > > yet another separate page for introductory/guidance > info. I > >> > > hope > >> > > >the > >> > > >> > > > starting page + the generic pages we have are mostly > fine. > >> > > However, > >> > > >> > > > adding a link here and there to lead site visitors. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > Getting started could be a more specific > project-oriented > >> > page. > >> > > >There, > >> > > >> > > > you can tell people to go <link>download</link>, > >> > > <link>build</link> > >> > > >> > > the > >> > > >> > > > code. After which, they can start using it just as any > >> other > >> > > >> > > > <link>RI-compatible</link> jdk. With the exceptions, see > >> our > >> > > >> > > > <link>wiki</link> pages. > >> > > >> > > > To use the vm, readers might need to use the following > >> > > options... > >> > > >> > > > If they want to read more on our VM, they can visit the > >> > > >> > > > <link>component</link> page. If no website page contains > an > >> > > answer > >> > > >- > >> > > >> > > > they can read <link>wiki faqa</link>. > >> > > >> > > > .. or something like that :) > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Nadya, I really appreciate our efforts :) But this morning > I > >> > woke > >> > > up > >> > > >> > > and looked the site structure with the eye of a beginner. > And > >> > > could > >> > > >> > > not find any obvius flaws in the main structure. Left-side > >> > > collection > >> > > >> > > of links is in a very good shape, good for beginner-level > >> > > navigation > >> > > >> > > and contains almost all links you listed here. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > This was a really refreshing morning :) > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > I'll ask some guys who are new to the project, how they > feel > >> > > about > >> > > >the > >> > > >> > > site. And will report back, if I find something. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > Refreshing morning is over, now back to work.. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > Thank you, > >> > > >> > > > Nadya Morozova > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > >> > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Egor > >> > Pasko > >> > > >> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:33 PM > >> > > >> > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting started > >> with > >> > > DRL" > >> > > >is > >> > > >> > > > outdated > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > On the 0x21C day of Apache Harmony Pavel Ozhdikhin > wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > On 11/9/06, Morozova, Nadezhda > >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > >wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Egor, > >> > > >> > > > > > +1 for > >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a > collection > >> of > >> > > links > >> > > >to > >> > > >> > > > the > >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short > >> descriptions > >> > > ("Site > >> > > >> > > Map" > >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable > floating > >> > > around in > >> > > >> > > the > >> > > >> > > > web. > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > We already have one page having links to the resources > >> > about > >> > > >DRLVM: > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/index.html > >> > > >> > > > > Why do you think we need another one? > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > because it is only DRLVM. > >> > > >> > > > I think of something like "site map", a collection of > >> links. > >> > > Short > >> > > >> > > > descriptions to some basic ones. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > +1 for > >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" > >> > (omitting > >> > > the > >> > > >> > > word > >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally) > >> > > >> > > > > > Question on this one: will the page contain vm-only > >> > > options? > >> > > >What > >> > > >> > > > about > >> > > >> > > > > > JIT, GC, other? I'd have them all in one place, but > we > >> > have > >> > > >> > > separate > >> > > >> > > > > > docs for EM/jit stuff. What do you say? > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > I think we can describe basic options for every > component > >> > > there. > >> > > >> > > Only > >> > > >> > > > those > >> > > >> > > > > that might be interesting for any user. The place for > >> other > >> > > >options > >> > > >> > > is > >> > > >> > > > in > >> > > >> > > > > the run-time help or Developer's Guide for a > component. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > I thought of "most commonly used" options. They can > >> possibly > >> > be > >> > > >> > > > grouped by components, but not necessary. I would group > >> them > >> > by > >> > > >> > > > use-cases. BTW, "any user" is not an obvious substance > for > >> > me. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > So, the list is not obvious, we need to work it out. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > I see it like HOWTOs. For example: > >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:jet <- use only baseline JIT compiler" > >> > > >> > > > "-Xem:opt <- use only optimising JIT compiler" > >> > > >> > > > "-Xtrace:em <- print method compilation events" > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > The 'big' question is: "does 'any user' need to know > about > >> > JITs > >> > > >> > > > switching?". I say YES, it helps users to investigate > >> > problems, > >> > > >which > >> > > >> > > > helps us, developers, to react on users' input faster. > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > Other options? I can enlist the set of most commonly > used > >> by > >> > > me. If > >> > > >> > > > many of us put their lists here, we can sum them up > quickly > >> > and > >> > > >make > >> > > >> > > > a good (really useful) list of popular options. How > about > >> > that? > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > BTW, the list should not be too big. 25 options is a > kind > >> of > >> > > limit > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Thanks, > >> > > >> > > > > Pavel > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > Thank you, > >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya Morozova > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > >> > > > > > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > >> Egor > >> > > Pasko > >> > > >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 5:51 AM > >> > > >> > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting > started > >> > > with > >> > > >DRL" > >> > > >> > > is > >> > > >> > > > > > outdated > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > On the 0x21B day of Apache Harmony Nadezhda Morozova > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > > > All, > >> > > >> > > > > > > I'd like to share everyone's grief at the sight of > >> > > outdated > >> > > >> > > > Getting > >> > > >> > > > > > > Started document. However, I'd not hurry to > eliminate > >> > the > >> > > >page > >> > > >> > > as > >> > > >> > > > > > such. > >> > > >> > > > > > > We might reconsider some of its contents, change > >> > > structure, > >> > > >and > >> > > >> > > > update > >> > > >> > > > > > > individual bits, but please think carefully before > >> > > removing > >> > > >the > >> > > >> > > > page. > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > I think Getting Started (as the title shows) is > aimed > >> > to > >> > > help > >> > > >a > >> > > >> > > > newbie > >> > > >> > > > > > > work with our vm. I know that many primarily > >> interested > >> > > in > >> > > >other > >> > > >> > > > > > things > >> > > >> > > > > > > - conformance, architecture, internal specifics. > >> > However, > >> > > we > >> > > >> > > > should > >> > > >> > > > > > also > >> > > >> > > > > > > think how the vm is used. AFAIK, Getting started > is > >> now > >> > > the > >> > > >> > > *only* > >> > > >> > > > doc > >> > > >> > > > > > > that tries to show how to use our vm. You tell > people > >> > how > >> > > to > >> > > >> > > > download > >> > > >> > > > > > > and build, but almost nothing about how to run and > >> > > configure > >> > > >> > > (with > >> > > >> > > > the > >> > > >> > > > > > > exception of EM/JIT). > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > My suggestion would be to think of what you want > to > >> > tell > >> > > >people > >> > > >> > > > about > >> > > >> > > > > > > usage - with or without eclipse specifics. And > store > >> > this > >> > > >info > >> > > >> > > on > >> > > >> > > > the > >> > > >> > > > > > > page. I know it is hard - and I offer my help and > >> > support > >> > > in > >> > > >> > > this > >> > > >> > > > > > > burdensome initiative. Any thoughts? i might be > >> > > inobjective > >> > > >and > >> > > >> > > > > > > emotional :) > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Nadya, > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > I believe, almost everyone coming across Harmony > knows > >> > how > >> > > to > >> > > >use > >> > > >> > > > > > J5SE. We are striving for this compatibility, and we > >> are > >> > > happy > >> > > >> > > that > >> > > >> > > > > > all DRLVM-specific pecularities are gone. > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > So, I vote for: > >> > > >> > > > > > * removing the "Getting Started" (also because of > >> > > irritating > >> > > >> > > windows > >> > > >> > > > > > screenshots:) > >> > > >> > > > > > * preparing the "Commonly Used Options for DRLVM" > >> > (omitting > >> > > the > >> > > >> > > word > >> > > >> > > > > > "supported" intentionally) > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > Just idea: "Getting Started" may contain a > collection > >> of > >> > > links > >> > > >to > >> > > >> > > > the > >> > > >> > > > > > main website and other resources with short > >> descriptions > >> > > ("Site > >> > > >> > > Map" > >> > > >> > > > > > or something) so that people are comfortable > floating > >> > > around in > >> > > >> > > the > >> > > >> > > > web. > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > >> > > > > > > From: Mikhail Fursov > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 6:03 PM > >> > > >> > > > > > > To: harmony-dev@incubator.apache.org > >> > > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [doc][drlvm] The document "Getting > >> started > >> > > with > >> > > >> > > DRL" > >> > > >> > > > is > >> > > >> > > > > > > outdated > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > It's not a hard to write a documenation once, it's > >> hard > >> > > to > >> > > >> > > support > >> > > >> > > > it > >> > > >> > > > > > :) > >> > > >> > > > > > > More problems: > >> > > >> > > > > > > 1) -Xem options are obsolete. > >> > > >> > > > > > > 2) -Xjit options are also obsolete. > >> > > >> > > > > > > 3) Do we really need this page today? AFAIU users > >> > expect > >> > > >Harmony > >> > > >> > > > VM is > >> > > >> > > > > > > able > >> > > >> > > > > > > to run the same apps as RI.. > >> > > >> > > > > > > ? > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > On 11/8/06, Pavel Ozhdikhin > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > >wrote: > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Hello all, > >> > > >> > > > > > > > I've read through the "Getting Started with > >> > > >> > > > > > > > DRL< > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started > >> > > . > >> > > >> > > > > > > html > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >" > >> > > >> > > > > > > > document on the Harmony web and found it > completely > >> > > >outdated, > >> > > >> > > > for > >> > > >> > > > > > > example: > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > - the term DRL is used instead of DRLVM > >> > > >> > > > > > > > - eclipse.bat and eclipse.sh are obsolete - > we > >> > don't > >> > > >need > >> > > >> > > > them > >> > > >> > > > > > > anymore > >> > > >> > > > > > > > to run Eclipse. It can be started with DRLVM > the > >> > > same > >> > > >way > >> > > >> > > as > >> > > >> > > > with > >> > > >> > > > > > > any > >> > > >> > > > > > > > other > >> > > >> > > > > > > > VM. > >> > > >> > > > > > > > - We don't need to set PATH and > LD_LIBRARY_PATH > >> > > anymore, > >> > > >at > >> > > >> > > > least > >> > > >> > > > > > > on > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Windows/MSVC > >> > > >> > > > > > > > - ij was renamed to java > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > We took a big step to unification with other > Java > >> VMs > >> > > and > >> > > >now > >> > > >> > > > > > > > we don't need anything specific to run Eclipse, > for > >> > > >example. > >> > > >> > > > After > >> > > >> > > > > > > > removing > >> > > >> > > > > > > > all irrelevant info the document would contain > only > >> > the > >> > > >list > >> > > >> > > of > >> > > >> > > > > > > > command-line > >> > > >> > > > > > > > options. I think we can move this list to a > >> separate > >> > > >document > >> > > >> > > > (Wiki, > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Developer's Guide?) and remove the "Getting > >> Started" > >> > > >itself. > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Any opinions? > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, > >> > > >> > > > > > > > Pavel > >> > > >> > > > > > > > < > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/subcomponents/drlvm/getting_started > >> > > . > >> > > >> > > > > > > html > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -- > >> > > >> > > > > > > Mikhail Fursov > >> > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > -- > >> > > >> > > > > > Egor Pasko > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > -- > >> > > >> > > > Egor Pasko > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- > >> > > >> > > Egor Pasko > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > Egor Pasko > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > >-- > >> > > >Egor Pasko > >> > > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Egor Pasko > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Egor Pasko > >> > > > >-- > >Egor Pasko > -- Egor Pasko
