Agreed Jed..you have listed most of the things I also have a beef with. Last few years I worked on mods for the engine..model export and compiling was a major pain and even with your tools at times I felt like throwing my computer out the window. There is also no hot loading of mat's as far as i am know so its a dam bitch to tweek materials to look they way you want(load reload the game). We actually paid modllers who worked for other game companies to work on the last mod and they couldnt belive how backward the toolset was..so given that is it time for valve to close their SVN trunk on the old hammer editor/bsp system and work on somthing else
On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 11:41 PM, <hlcoders-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com>wrote: > Send hlcoders mailing list submissions to > hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > hlcoders-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > hlcoders-ow...@list.valvesoftware.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of hlcoders digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Engine Memory Leak (Jay Stelly) > 2. whats happening with this engine (Adam Donovan) > 3. Re: whats happening with this engine (Kohan Venets) > 4. Re: whats happening with this engine (Saul Rennison) > 5. Re: whats happening with this engine (Joel R.) > 6. whats happening with this engine (Mulchman) > 7. Re: whats happening with this engine (Harry Jeffery) > 8. Re: whats happening with this engine (Jed) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:48:19 -0700 > From: Jay Stelly <j...@valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Engine Memory Leak > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: > < > ecfc316e962e714ca8e32fdb23d76d7a15842...@exchange07.valvesoftware.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I just debugged this. I'll see if I can get a fix out soon. > > Jay > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlcoders- > > boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Arne Sikstrom > > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:39 AM > > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Engine Memory Leak > > > > I can confirm this for our OB based mod. The MP3 leaks memory but the > > WAV > > does not. > > > > This is really bad, our sound guy is not very happy to use WAV for > > everything. Do we have an official bug report for this? > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Justin Krenz <kre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > MP3s don't appear to be cached. In my mod, we played the same MP3 > > > sound effect over and over, and it eventually caused the client to > > > crash with an out of memory error. When memory gets full, the > > console > > > reports that the MP3 can't be found on disk. Then, if something > > tries > > > to allocate memory or the level changes, it crashes. > > > > > > Playing the MP3 sound effect in my mod used up about 100 K at a time. > > > I think it's probably related to how big the MP3 file is. Run your > > > mod in a window with task manager open, and watch how memory changes > > > for HL2. That's how I found the source of the leak. Memory should > > be > > > stable while your mod is running. Perform all of the actions that > > > might normally occur in your mod while watching memory. See if you > > > can find an action that consistently causes memory to increase. > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Brent Lewis<coder0...@hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Have you produced an out of memory error by playing the same mp3 > > again > > > and again? Just curious if maybe it's being cached. > > > > > > > >> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:25:19 +0200 > > > >> From: arne.sikst...@gmail.com > > > >> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Engine Memory Leak > > > >> > > > >> How bad is it? How much memory is lost for each call? We are > > chasing > > > memory > > > >> leaks in our mod at the moment and are playing mp3 sounds file at > > level > > > >> changes. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Justin Krenz <kre...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > I just discovered the source of a memory leak in my mod, > > Smashball. > > > >> > It appears that if you call EmitSound using an MP3 sound file, > > memory > > > >> > is allocated and never returned. Specifically, > > > >> > "enginesound->EmitSound(...)" ( > > /game/shared/SoundEmitterSystem.cpp > > > >> > line 460 ) is the function that allocates the memory. Thus, if > > you > > > >> > play an MP3 over and over, it will eventually cause HL2 to run > > out of > > > >> > memory. When playing a wave file, no memory is allocated via > > > >> > EmitSound. > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200 > From: Adam Donovan <adamjjdono...@gmail.com> > Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > Message-ID: > <61584190907231351w57945d08u7d1ae81a0575...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it has not > been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to use > to > create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer game > developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment > design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod > alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a game > developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and > content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the engine > woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people like me > some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more > modern..Id > expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are other > engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being > said..i > kinda care about seeing progress. > greetz > nava > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:09:40 -0700 > From: Kohan Venets <idr...@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > To: hlcoders <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: <col120-w112e8cc9129ea33201dee697...@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > I'm not claiming to agree or disagree, but I'd like to mention that using > proper spelling and grammar would help people take you seriously. "Iam" > "disapointed" "beleive" "displacment" "isnt" "alogothim" "differnt" > "fundemenal" "woulod" "jsut" "Id" "dont". > > It's just difficult to believe that you have a job as a game developer when > you type that way. > > -Kohan > > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200 > > From: adamjjdono...@gmail.com > > To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > > > > After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it has > not > > been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to use > to > > create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer game > > developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment > > design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod > > alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a game > > developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and > > content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the > engine > > woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people like > me > > some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more > modern..Id > > expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are other > > engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being > said..i > > kinda care about seeing progress. > > greetz > > nava > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. > http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:14:55 +0100 > From: Saul Rennison <saul.renni...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: > <7305d8560907231414p2fe7e37bocdf5b6560b9a4...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Displacements don't need an LOD algorithm, displacements aren't used for > huge, very precise landscapes. It's just a low-resolution triangle strip :| > > Thanks, > - Saul. > > > 2009/7/23 Kohan Venets <idr...@hotmail.com> > > > > > I'm not claiming to agree or disagree, but I'd like to mention that using > > proper spelling and grammar would help people take you seriously. "Iam" > > "disapointed" "beleive" "displacment" "isnt" "alogothim" "differnt" > > "fundemenal" "woulod" "jsut" "Id" "dont". > > > > It's just difficult to believe that you have a job as a game developer > when > > you type that way. > > > > -Kohan > > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200 > > > From: adamjjdono...@gmail.com > > > To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > > > > > > After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it has > > not > > > been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to > use > > to > > > create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer game > > > developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment > > > design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod > > > alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a game > > > developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and > > > content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the > > engine > > > woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people like > > me > > > some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more > > modern..Id > > > expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are > other > > > engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being > > said..i > > > kinda care about seeing progress. > > > greetz > > > nava > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. > > http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:16:22 -0500 > From: "Joel R." <joelru...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: > <eab63e430907231416h19c77f14na76809b87590f...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hes an old schooler it does not matter > > back on topic > > Yes, there is much room for improvement in many areas. Source Engine is > the > only modern engine to still be using BSP. However, i think the tools like > hammer should be open source so people like us can improve them since valve > lacks the manpower to do so. > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Kohan Venets <idr...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I'm not claiming to agree or disagree, but I'd like to mention that using > > proper spelling and grammar would help people take you seriously. "Iam" > > "disapointed" "beleive" "displacment" "isnt" "alogothim" "differnt" > > "fundemenal" "woulod" "jsut" "Id" "dont". > > > > It's just difficult to believe that you have a job as a game developer > when > > you type that way. > > > > -Kohan > > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200 > > > From: adamjjdono...@gmail.com > > > To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > > > > > > After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it has > > not > > > been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to > use > > to > > > create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer game > > > developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment > > > design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod > > > alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a game > > > developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and > > > content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the > > engine > > > woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people like > > me > > > some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more > > modern..Id > > > expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are > other > > > engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being > > said..i > > > kinda care about seeing progress. > > > greetz > > > nava > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. > > http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:16:47 -0700 > From: Mulchman <mulch...@gmail.com> > Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: <4a68d33f.3060...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Adam Donovan wrote: > > [...] > > > > This reads like a 3 AM drunken rant. I hope your current employer > doesn't read this mailing list. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:36:24 +0100 > From: Harry Jeffery <harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: > <bcdad96f0907231436g51862c85x303fe6bd4f19b...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > CoD4's prefab based maps work for people to create levels fairly > easily but I dont see the same creative community that exists in css, > tf2 and l4d. > > BSP works, I'm happy with it, I get a lot of control with it. You > choose the engine for the game, you want to make a crysis scale game > then use the crytek engine. If something like TF2 is in mind then use > source 2007. > > The misconception that source is the same engine it was 5 years ago > bugs me. Valve have updated it loads and brought graphics, physics and > gameplay to the next generation. TBH valve are a generation ahead of > everyone else in terms of gameplay. > > Last time I checked insurgency looked pretty damn nice, at a par with cod4 > IMO. > > 2009/7/23 Joel R. <joelru...@gmail.com>: > > Hes an old schooler it does not matter > > > > back on topic > > > > Yes, there is much room for improvement in many areas. ?Source Engine is > the > > only modern engine to still be using BSP. ?However, i think the tools > like > > hammer should be open source so people like us can improve them since > valve > > lacks the manpower to do so. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Kohan Venets <idr...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> > >> I'm not claiming to agree or disagree, but I'd like to mention that > using > >> proper spelling and grammar would help people take you seriously. ?"Iam" > >> "disapointed" "beleive" "displacment" "isnt" "alogothim" "differnt" > >> "fundemenal" "woulod" "jsut" "Id" "dont". > >> > >> It's just difficult to believe that you have a job as a game developer > when > >> you type that way. > >> > >> -Kohan > >> > >> > >> > >> > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200 > >> > From: adamjjdono...@gmail.com > >> > To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > >> > Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > >> > > >> > After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it > has > >> not > >> > been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to > use > >> to > >> > create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer > game > >> > developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment > >> > design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod > >> > alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a > game > >> > developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and > >> > content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the > >> engine > >> > woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people > like > >> me > >> > some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more > >> modern..Id > >> > expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are > other > >> > engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being > >> said..i > >> > kinda care about seeing progress. > >> > greetz > >> > nava > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. ?Click here. > >> > http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:41:49 +0200 > From: Jed <j...@wunderboy.org> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Message-ID: > <fad63f660907231441l7224e86cm6334f34f624ce...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Kohan, if you'd seen the grammar in e-mail I've received from people > with an @valvesoftware.com email address you wouldn't disbelieve that > Adam may actually have a game industry job. > > That said, I agree with the sentiment that Valve is probably the last > game company pushing a BSP based engine? After 3 years of building a > mod I'm starting to believe that Source is just the HL1 engine with a > bunch of third-party API's plugged in. Certainly they have come up > with some very cool stuff but over Goldsrc, Source just doesn't feel > very "next-gen" to me. I remember when CS:S first came out and > everyone was was "well you should be able to do XXX/YYY with the > source engine". Ultimately all the mods big plans fell flat and it > feels, with a few exceptions, the same stuff as HL1 but with better > graphics. > > My biggest beef with Source as a next-gen engine is their tool set. I > *really* think Valve have taken a backwards step with their SDK and > tool chain and make modding exponentially difficult for those that > want to do it. When I look at other engines everything is so much more > refined and documented and the tools are much more polished that > Valve. Case in point: > > - Why are we still using a command line model compiler? The main > modder demographic is probably 15 - 20 somethings of which most aren't > pre-windows 95 and don't know how to use a CLI. If I can write a > bloody GUI to StudioMDL, why can't Valve? > > - Why the hell are we still using SMD? Take a continuous mesh model, > break it into triangles and re-compile it into tri-strips at compile. > Hint Valve - either adapt your SMD/OBJ MRM hybrid format or just use > DAE/FBX for God's sake. You'll find you don't need "us" to make SMD > support for every 3D app out there if you adopt a cross application 3D > format. > > I could go on, but I personally think that Valve need to seriously > polish their tool set if they expect us, as modders, and maybe even > studios to adopt their engine. Content creation shouldn't be a fight. > > And I say this knowing full well that some people at Valve prefer my > tools over their own... > > - J > > > 2009/7/23 Kohan Venets <idr...@hotmail.com>: > > > > I'm not claiming to agree or disagree, but I'd like to mention that using > proper spelling and grammar would help people take you seriously. ?"Iam" > "disapointed" "beleive" "displacment" "isnt" "alogothim" "differnt" > "fundemenal" "woulod" "jsut" "Id" "dont". > > > > It's just difficult to believe that you have a job as a game developer > when you type that way. > > > > -Kohan > > > > > > > >> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200 > >> From: adamjjdono...@gmail.com > >> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > >> Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine > >> > >> After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it has > not > >> been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to > use to > >> create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer game > >> developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment > >> design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod > >> alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a game > >> developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and > >> content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the > engine > >> woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people like > me > >> some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more > modern..Id > >> expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are > other > >> engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being > said..i > >> kinda care about seeing progress. > >> greetz > >> nava > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. ?Click here. > > http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > End of hlcoders Digest, Vol 17, Issue 40 > **************************************** > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
