Do you always patronize those who disagree with you?
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of David Crayford <dcrayf...@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 10:07 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ISPF for mainframe Linux Do you do much coding these days? Or do you just pontificate on mailing lists ;) > On 28 Jan 2021, at 11:01 pm, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: > > What you believe has no relation to reallity. Maybe the built-in commands of > your editor are sufficient for your needs, or maybe you have more tolerance > for reptitive tasks than I, but others have more stringent requirements. No > editor has built-in commands for everything a user might want to do. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of > David Crayford <dcrayf...@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 2:58 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: ISPF for mainframe Linux > > I think your the one missing the point. I can't remember the last time I > had to write a macro as I can do the things I need just using commands. > > >> On 28/01/2021 2:24 pm, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> You're missing the point. A good macro facility makes it easy to extend the >> editor and add feature that the designers never thought of. The edit macro >> that I posted was intended to be an example of that. Were I familiar with >> emacs I would have written an emacs macro in LISP, but the point would have >> been the same. If I'm going to learn a *ix editor, why would I bother with >> an editor without the ability to write macros when editors like emacs are >> available? Why do you assume that an ISPF clone on a PC is limited to what >> is possible on a 3270? >> >> Just because you don't understand why people like ISPF doesn't mean that "It >> comes down to familiarity and a reluctance to invest time to learn new >> things"; it doesn't. Maybe they know something you don't know. >> >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of >> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 11:18 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: ISPF for mainframe Linux >> >> A REXX edit macro, that's great! In Vim I can position my cursor over a >> function or keyword and press 'gd' to goto the defintion. It also has >> plugins for code completion etc. All of this in a TUI. Intellij IDEA >> is so advanced that it lints code while you type and flags problems. Use >> a keyboard shortcut and it refactors the code. One of the most useful >> features in modern editors is multiple cursors. >> This is achieved in Vim using visual block mode. ISPF has no equivalent >> and never will as 3270 is a half-duplex protocol. I'm not knocking ISPF. >> I use it all the time. I would much rather use the >> SDSF ISPF UI as opposed to of the z/OSMF GUI. The command line is more >> efficient. But when it comes to editors, ISPF does not shine brightly. >> It's incredibly limited which is why I don't understand >> why people want to use the likes of SPF-PC to emulate ISPF on other >> platforms when the native tools are so much better. It comes down to >> familiarity and a reluctance to invest time to learn new things. >> That's a fact and many of my colleagues openly admit it. They've reached >> a stage in their career where they simply have no desire to change the >> way they work. >> >> >> On 28/01/2021 9:28 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>>> Isn't writing code macros a bit dated? >>> No. Aren't editors that don't allow writing macros a bit dated? Trivial >>> example: >>> >>> /* REXX from TSPF - not tested in ISPF */ >>> address ISREDIT >>> "MACRO" >>> "CURSOR = 1 1" >>> "(NEW) = LINENUM .ZCSR" >>> "(LAST) = LINENUM .ZLAST" >>> "(NLINE) = LINE" NEW >>> do while NEW ¬= LAST >>> OLD =NEW >>> OLINE=NLINE >>> "CURSOR =" OLD+1 >>> "(NEW) = LINENUM .ZCSR" >>> "(NLINE) = LINE "NEW >>> if NLINE=OLINE >>> then do >>> 'DELETE' NEW >>> 'CURSOR =' OLD >>> "(NEW) = LINENUM .ZCSR" >>> end >>> "(LAST) = LINENUM .ZLAST" >>> end >>> >>>> In Vim I can record macros. >>> In ISPF I don't need them. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of >>> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 8:18 PM >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: ISPF for mainframe Linux >>> >>> On 28/01/2021 8:25 am, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>>> Yes, and you can write macros for it. Still, when you have ISPF available >>>> there's little call to use TSO EDIT. >>> Isn't writing code macros a bit dated? In Vim I can record macros. >>> >>> >>>> -- >>>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf >>>> of Tony Harminc [t...@harminc.net] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2021 4:00 PM >>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: ISPF for mainframe Linux >>>> >>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 at 11:21, Tom Brennan <t...@tombrennansoftware.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That's probably true, but around 2005 when I didn't have enough z/OS >>>>> work to do, I moved about half my time over to the dark side of AIX, >>>>> Linux, and at least a couple of other Unixes that I can't remember - >>>>> working with a bunch of folks who never touched a mainframe. I don't >>>>> remember a single complaint about vi from them. I did ask why (in the >>>>> world) they used it, and they said because it's always available by >>>>> default - no install needed. >>>> TSO "EDIT" is always available on z/OS... Doesn't even require a 3270! >>>> >>>> Tony H. >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN