On Tue, Jan 24, 2006 at 11:48:51PM -0500, Charles Martin wrote: > >From: Tim Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>You missed something. Somehow, and I really can't imagine how, but > >>somehow you missed the fact that both of the announced Intel Macs > >>(and all future Intel Macs) use Intel chips that ARE NOT PART OF THE > >>X86 FAMILY. > > > >Actually, yes they are. > > Not really. Using your logic, ALL chips (from different companies, > using different technologies) are descended from the original > Microchip are are thus part of the same family.
No, that's not what I said. I said "All of the current Intel *desktop* chips are descended from the 8086 (through 80186, 286, 386, 486, Pentium etc...)" That means Pentium. Itanium was a new design that is different (apart from anything else, isn't it 64bit?) > > That's stretching it waaaaay beyond what anyone at Intel would grant > you, as is obvious from their literature on the subject. To use your > own evidence against you, go and read the actual defining > characteristics of the x86 chip here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8086 > > >All of the current Intel desktop chips are descended from the 8086 > >(through 80186, 286, 386, 486, Pentium etc...). Even though theu > >are massively different, they still feature the same basic > >instruction set (now with a heap of extensions) that the original > >x86 processors had. > > Again, not accurate. To the extent that all microprocessor chips are, > at some level, similar, you can say that the Core Duo and the 8086 > are related. > > That is akin to inviting monkeys to your family reunion. > > >>It's not the same family. It's not even the same technology. > > > >It is not the same technology, but it is a direct descendant. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86 > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Duo > >http://www.pcmech.com/show/processors/35/1/ > > Thanks for those references, but they only show that the Intel Core > Duo is only a "direct" descendant in the sense that it's made by the > same company. Absolutely NO PART of a Core Duo has ANYTHING like the > same technology that the 8088 had. I'm not sure what _you_ mean by technology here. I agree that things like the memory addressing scheme in the new chips is different (since they can talk to (several ?) GB of memory compared to 1MB in the older generation. Nevertheless, each generation is an evolution of the last. > > > >>The last chip Intel produced that actually ended in "86" was the > >>80486 in 1991, however it is widely held that the Pentium class of > >>chips are also part of the "x86" family, and their similar layout and > >>fabrication techniques would support that argument. > > > >They changed to naming them because it's not possible to trademark > >a number. > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium > > > >The Itanium is a totally different architecture, the Pentium (and > >now Core) chip is still IA-32, which is the new name for x86. > > Under your logic, the Itanium it is still an 8088 descendant since it > performs a similar function as was made by the same company. You > can't see how ridiculous such a statement is on its face? > No, I think that you are misreading what I wrote (and that this is an easy thing to do when debating by email). The point I was making is that the current Core chips are an evolution of the original Intel x86 family of processors, and so can be refered to as such. Furthermore I also stated that the Itanium, which is 64bit was a new design. > IA-32 was not just a new name -- it was an entirely different > architecture. Yes, I agree with you here. Nevertheless, it was instruction-compatible, so as far as I'm concerned, it's the same family. > > This is reminding me more and more of the "Evolution vs. Intelligent > Design" non-debate. > > Again -- NOWHERE in their marketing does Intel EVER refer to these > chips as "x86" or similar wording. NOWHERE in their white papers does > this term or variant thereof appear. NOWHERE on their website, their > public speeches or their spec sheets. As far as Intel is concerned, > the x86 chip family was discontinued in favour of superior technology > YEARS AGO. > This is reminding me more of the ID vs. Evolution 'non-debate' too ;-) (and please, let's not go there on this list) The intellligent design proponents base a great deal of their argument on the fact that there is little evidence to argue against their case. Similarly, just because you can't find evidence on the Intel website that this is a direct descendant of the x86 chip, it doesn't mean that it's not. Of course Intel don't want to use the term anymore - we've already established that they want us to use their brand-name. > Seriously -- who am I supposed to believe? You, or the freakin' > people who invented the thing? > > Again -- referring to the Intel Core Duo as an "x86" chip is like > calling the G5 the "68070." That's what I said before, and nothing > you've put up above refutes this statement. Take it up with Intel if > you don't like it, I'm just reporting the news and correcting made-up > quotes. > > I've made my assertions and backed them up with evidence from the > only source that matters -- Intel. No, you've failed to produce any evidence that this is not the case ;o). If you want me to agree with you, please find me something that says "Core Duo is not an x86 chip". Good luck with that ;o) (Before you flame me, notice the smilies) > I'll stop here, as I'm quite sure we are boring the pants off most of > the lists' readers. Agreed, but it's always hard not to get the last word, no? :o) Cheers, Tim -- The iMac List is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and... 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