Accepted Sir. Regards Yazdy. On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 7:25 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
> Then perhaps I will stick to C. sativus var. hardwickii > > > -- > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ <http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> wrote: > >> However, it is used in ayurveda. >> Regards >> Yazdy. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Gurcharan ji, these are not planted for sure... however these are found >>> growing along roadsides and forest trails (may be found to a certain depth >>> in forests). >>> About inedibility, will get to know from the local folks. >>> >>> Many thanks for resolving the ID. >>> Regards. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Yazdi ji and Dinesh ji >>>> Having agreed on C. sativus, you have now to confirm two things: First >>>> is it wild? and secondly is it bitter and inedible? If these two things are >>>> correct, it would be C. sativus var. hardwickii. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ <http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, >>>>> Many thanks for the definition. According to the definition, it does >>>>> appear to be C Sativus. Attaching a picture of sliced fruit. The seeds too >>>>> look like cucumber. My only doubt was that in none of the pictures did we >>>>> find this fruit. However, if we do go by the definition, it is C. Sativus. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Regards >>>>> Yazdy. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yazdi ji >>>>>> >>>>>> May be these can help you >>>>>> >>>>>> Eflora of Pakistan >>>>>> >>>>>> 2 >>>>>> (1)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-1> >>>>>> Leaf >>>>>> lobes acute. Ovary hispidulous. Fruit elongated or cylindric, rarely >>>>>> ovoid >>>>>> 1 Cucumis >>>>>> sativus<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200022616>+Leaf >>>>>> lobes not acute. Ovary hairy or densely white woolly. Fruit polymorphic, >>>>>> mostly rounded, ovoid or ellipsoid >>>>>> (3)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-3> >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> (2)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-2> >>>>>> Leaves >>>>>> usually deeply 5(-7)-lobed, scabrid. Corolla up to 10 mm long. Fruit >>>>>> oblong >>>>>> or obscurely trigonus, upto 7 cm long. Plants wild 3 Cucumis melo >>>>>> subsp. agrestis var. >>>>>> agr<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250077277> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hortus Third >>>>>> >>>>>> C. sativus: Rough-hary. Leaves triangular-ovate, pointed, often >>>>>> somewhat 3-lobed, flowers short stalked and clustered in axils on main >>>>>> stem. >>>>>> Fruit prickly when young. >>>>>> >>>>>> C. melo: Softly hairy. Leaves round-ovate to nearly reniform, obtuse. >>>>>> Flower long stalked. Young fruit pubescent. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh ji, >>>>>>> Thank you for being so patient with this lay person. I will go >>>>>>> through >>>>>>> the links copied by you. I do not recollect having stated that it is >>>>>>> melon(c melo). The only reason I have been maintaining that it is not >>>>>>> c sativus is because , I see no picture that is matching the pictures >>>>>>> attached by me. I do not know the definition of C sativus. Shall try >>>>>>> to go through and find out the definition and revert back. >>>>>>> Thank you once again for being so patient. >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> Yazdy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > Yazdy ji >>>>>>> > Just try to compare and decide does this plant resemble more with >>>>>>> melon (C. >>>>>>> > melo) or cucumber (C. sativus)? You should get the answer. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Exactly Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, I have been going through many a >>>>>>> site >>>>>>> >> but am not able to see a single picture of the cucumis that we had >>>>>>> >> uploaded. Somewhere I did read that a bitter cucumis is seen in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> >> wild and it is also used in Ayurveda but it has no English name. >>>>>>> >> I am still on the lookout for any entry of this cucumis or should >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> >> say cucurbit (please correct me). >>>>>>> >> Regards >>>>>>> >> Yazdy. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >> > This is what should be Cucumis melo ssp. agrestris and not one >>>>>>> uploaded >>>>>>> >> > by >>>>>>> >> > Dinesh ji and Yazdi ji >>>>>>> >> > Note pubescent young fruits and absence of tubercles >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/africa_dojo/FakaraPlants/Contents/Species_pages/images/CucummelM1_l.jpg >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > -- >>>>>>> >> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> >> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> >> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> >> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> >> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> >> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >> > wrote: >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> Many thanks Yazdy ji for the good spirits !! >>>>>>> >> >> Many thanks to Gurcharan ji for Cucumis sativus var. >>>>>>> hardwickii. >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> After having surfed for more information related to Mani ji's >>>>>>> input ... >>>>>>> >> >> ... found that the "wild cucumber" used during Deepavali >>>>>>> festival >>>>>>> >> >> (ritual >>>>>>> >> >> common in Maharashtra) is known by so many names: >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> कारिंट karinta >>>>>>> >> >> कारीट karita >>>>>>> >> >> कडू कारीट kadu karita (एक प्रकारचे कडू फळ ... a kind of bitter >>>>>>> fruit) >>>>>>> >> >> चिराटे chiraate >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> - reading in English (search karit for getting to the context): >>>>>>> >> >> ... >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t2687.html >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> - reading in Hindi (search कारीट for getting to the context) : >>>>>>> >> >> ... http://www.nanijdham.org/hi_1/faq.php >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> - reading in Marathi (search कारीट for getting to the context) >>>>>>> : >>>>>>> >> >> ... www.loksatta.com/old/daily/20021103/lokviv4.htm >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> Narrowing down to following in this order: >>>>>>> >> >> - Cucumis trigonus var. pubescens (syn. C. pseudo-colocynthis >>>>>>> var. >>>>>>> >> >> pubescens) >>>>>>> >> >> - Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii (syn: C. hardwickii ) >>>>>>> >> >> - Citrullus colocynthis ... ruling out >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> Tending to get convinced with Cucumis trigonus (var. pubescens) >>>>>>> : >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> - Dr. K.M. Nadkarni's Indian Materia Medica., Volume 2 By K. M. >>>>>>> >> >> Nadkarni, >>>>>>> >> >> A. K. Nadkarni ... interesting reading >>>>>>> >> >> ... >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=RA4Npohz4CEC&pg=PA405&lpg=PA405&dq=karit+Cucumis+trigonus&source=bl&ots=tY9YsdgjWC&sig=rlU22HIJCTJEq7HiwMi8wpge9D4&hl=en&ei=g3WxTKmbBYGycdDv9LIG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=karit%20Cucumis%20trigonus&f=false >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> More comments, please. >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> Regards. >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Yazdy Palia < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, >>>>>>> >> >>> I have gone through the links sent by you. I am not yet >>>>>>> satisfied. We >>>>>>> >> >>> definitely have achieved quite a bit but I will keep looking >>>>>>> for what >>>>>>> >> >>> I think is the correct identity. At the same time, I must >>>>>>> admit that I >>>>>>> >> >>> am a lay person and may be wrong. >>>>>>> >> >>> Regards >>>>>>> >> >>> Yazdy. >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>> > Friends we seem to be reaching somewhere. >>>>>>> >> >>> > Firstly let us not confuse plant uploaded by Dinesh ji with >>>>>>> what is >>>>>>> >> >>> > established Kachri fruit. Kachri is botanically Cucumis >>>>>>> trigonis now >>>>>>> >> >>> > correctly known as C. melo subsp. agrestris var. agrestris. >>>>>>> A fruit >>>>>>> >> >>> > which >>>>>>> >> >>> > rarely exceeds 4 cm in length, is a mini version of >>>>>>> watermelon in >>>>>>> >> >>> > color, >>>>>>> >> >>> > fruit green with dark green stripes. And important KACHRI IS >>>>>>> EDIBLE >>>>>>> >> >>> > AND >>>>>>> >> >>> > POPULARLY USED AS VEGETABLE IN VILLAGES. The young fruit of >>>>>>> C. melo >>>>>>> >> >>> > would >>>>>>> >> >>> > never have tubercles, it may be softly pubescent. >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> http://madteaparty.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/a-strange-gourd/ >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> http://efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=86657&flora_id=5 >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> >> >>> > The plant uploaded by Dinesh ji and Yazdy ji if it is wild, >>>>>>> bitter >>>>>>> >> >>> > and >>>>>>> >> >>> > not >>>>>>> >> >>> > edible (as informed by Yazdy ji, , surely we have reached C. >>>>>>> sativus >>>>>>> >> >>> > var. >>>>>>> >> >>> > hardwickii (Royle) Alef. (syn: C. hardwickii Royle) the wild >>>>>>> >> >>> > cucumber, >>>>>>> >> >>> > considered by some to be the progenitor of C. sativus var. >>>>>>> sativus. >>>>>>> >> >>> > If that is so we have achieved a lot in this series on >>>>>>> cucurbits. >>>>>>> >> >>> > And thanks Dinesh ji for uploading these photographs again >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >> >>> > again. >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> >> >>> > -- >>>>>>> >> >>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> >> >>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> >> >>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> >> >>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> >> >>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> >> >>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> >> >>> > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Yazdy Palia < >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> >> >>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> This is not Zehneria Scabra. Please go through the link for >>>>>>> Zeneria >>>>>>> >> >>> >> scabra. >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Zehneria+scabra&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364 >>>>>>> >> >>> >> Regards >>>>>>> >> >>> >> Yazdy. >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Aboli Kulkarni >>>>>>> >> >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> > hello everyone, >>>>>>> >> >>> >> > I think this is wild cucumber ( Zehneria scabra)... this >>>>>>> is very >>>>>>> >> >>> >> > common... we can easily see this in the vicinity of our >>>>>>> home... >>>>>>> >> >>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >>> >> > On Oct 9, 9:15 am, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> This is not cucumber. It is a wild fruit, we have a lot >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> discussion >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> recently. It is normally found around cowsheds as the >>>>>>> animals >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> enjoy >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> the fruits in the wild and the seeds sprout from the >>>>>>> dried >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> cattle >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> dropping. We have a lot of it in our area. >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> Regards >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> Yazdy. >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Cucumis sativus >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • >>>>>>> Assamese: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > তিয়ঁহ >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > tiyoh, >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > তিঁহু tihu • Bengali: শশা sasa • Gujarati: કાકડી >>>>>>> kakadi • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Hindi: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > खीरा >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > khira >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • Kannada: ಸೌತೆಕಾಯಿ sautekayi • Kashmiri: लौरू loru • >>>>>>> Konkani: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > तौशे >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > taushe • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Lushai: fang-hma • Malayalam: വെള്ളരി vellari • >>>>>>> Manipuri: থবী >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > thabi • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Marathi: काकडी kakadi, कांकडी kankadi, खिरा khira, >>>>>>> तवशी >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > tavashi • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Nepalese: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > काँक्रो kankro, खिर् khir, खिरो khiro, खिर्-काँक्रि >>>>>>> khir-kakri >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Oriya: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > kakudi • Persian: خيار khiyar • Prakrit: खीरओ khira-o >>>>>>> • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Punjabi: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ਖੀਰਾ >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > khira >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • Sanskrit: अल्पणः alpanah, अल्पणकः alpanakah, चर्भटी >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > charbati, >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ईर्वारुः >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > irvaaruh, क्षीरकः kshirakah, त्रपुलम् trapulam, >>>>>>> त्रपुसम् >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > trapusam >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Sindhi: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > وَنگيِ vangii • Tamil: வெள்ளரி vellari • Telugu: దోస >>>>>>> dosa, కీర >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > kira • >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Urdu: >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > کهيرا khira >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Attached views from town of Pali (famous for one of >>>>>>> super >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > eight >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > temples of >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Lord Ganesha) >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ... these were posted in earlier thread for ID query >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > resolved >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > by >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Gurcharan ji. >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ... more views at >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=91314344%40N00&q=Cucumissativus&m=tags >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Regards.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > >
