Thanks Yazdi ji and Dinesh ji Having agreed on C. sativus, you have now to confirm two things: First is it wild? and secondly is it bitter and inedible? If these two things are correct, it would be C. sativus var. hardwickii.
-- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, > Many thanks for the definition. According to the definition, it does appear > to be C Sativus. Attaching a picture of sliced fruit. The seeds too look > like cucumber. My only doubt was that in none of the pictures did we find > this fruit. However, if we do go by the definition, it is C. Sativus. > Regards > Regards > Yazdy. > > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Yazdi ji >> >> May be these can help you >> >> Eflora of Pakistan >> >> 2 (1)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-1> >> Leaf >> lobes acute. Ovary hispidulous. Fruit elongated or cylindric, rarely ovoid >> 1 Cucumis >> sativus<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200022616>+Leaf >> lobes not acute. Ovary hairy or densely white woolly. Fruit polymorphic, >> mostly rounded, ovoid or ellipsoid >> (3)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-3> >> 3 >> (2)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-2> >> Leaves >> usually deeply 5(-7)-lobed, scabrid. Corolla up to 10 mm long. Fruit oblong >> or obscurely trigonus, upto 7 cm long. Plants wild 3 Cucumis melo subsp. >> agrestis var. >> agr<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250077277> >> >> >> Hortus Third >> >> C. sativus: Rough-hary. Leaves triangular-ovate, pointed, often somewhat >> 3-lobed, flowers short stalked and clustered in axils on main stem. Fruit >> prickly when young. >> >> C. melo: Softly hairy. Leaves round-ovate to nearly reniform, obtuse. >> Flower long stalked. Young fruit pubescent. >> >> >> -- >> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ <http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh ji, >>> Thank you for being so patient with this lay person. I will go through >>> the links copied by you. I do not recollect having stated that it is >>> melon(c melo). The only reason I have been maintaining that it is not >>> c sativus is because , I see no picture that is matching the pictures >>> attached by me. I do not know the definition of C sativus. Shall try >>> to go through and find out the definition and revert back. >>> Thank you once again for being so patient. >>> Regards >>> Yazdy >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > Yazdy ji >>> > Just try to compare and decide does this plant resemble more with melon >>> (C. >>> > melo) or cucumber (C. sativus)? You should get the answer. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> > Retired Associate Professor >>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>> > >>> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Exactly Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, I have been going through many a site >>> >> but am not able to see a single picture of the cucumis that we had >>> >> uploaded. Somewhere I did read that a bitter cucumis is seen in the >>> >> wild and it is also used in Ayurveda but it has no English name. >>> >> I am still on the lookout for any entry of this cucumis or should I >>> >> say cucurbit (please correct me). >>> >> Regards >>> >> Yazdy. >>> >> >>> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > This is what should be Cucumis melo ssp. agrestris and not one >>> uploaded >>> >> > by >>> >> > Dinesh ji and Yazdi ji >>> >> > Note pubescent young fruits and absence of tubercles >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/africa_dojo/FakaraPlants/Contents/Species_pages/images/CucummelM1_l.jpg >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> >> > Retired Associate Professor >>> >> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> >> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> >> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> >> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Many thanks Yazdy ji for the good spirits !! >>> >> >> Many thanks to Gurcharan ji for Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> After having surfed for more information related to Mani ji's input >>> ... >>> >> >> ... found that the "wild cucumber" used during Deepavali festival >>> >> >> (ritual >>> >> >> common in Maharashtra) is known by so many names: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> कारिंट karinta >>> >> >> कारीट karita >>> >> >> कडू कारीट kadu karita (एक प्रकारचे कडू फळ ... a kind of bitter >>> fruit) >>> >> >> चिराटे chiraate >>> >> >> >>> >> >> - reading in English (search karit for getting to the context): >>> >> >> ... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t2687.html >>> >> >> >>> >> >> - reading in Hindi (search कारीट for getting to the context) : >>> >> >> ... http://www.nanijdham.org/hi_1/faq.php >>> >> >> >>> >> >> - reading in Marathi (search कारीट for getting to the context) : >>> >> >> ... www.loksatta.com/old/daily/20021103/lokviv4.htm >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Narrowing down to following in this order: >>> >> >> - Cucumis trigonus var. pubescens (syn. C. pseudo-colocynthis var. >>> >> >> pubescens) >>> >> >> - Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii (syn: C. hardwickii ) >>> >> >> - Citrullus colocynthis ... ruling out >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Tending to get convinced with Cucumis trigonus (var. pubescens) : >>> >> >> >>> >> >> - Dr. K.M. Nadkarni's Indian Materia Medica., Volume 2 By K. M. >>> >> >> Nadkarni, >>> >> >> A. K. Nadkarni ... interesting reading >>> >> >> ... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=RA4Npohz4CEC&pg=PA405&lpg=PA405&dq=karit+Cucumis+trigonus&source=bl&ots=tY9YsdgjWC&sig=rlU22HIJCTJEq7HiwMi8wpge9D4&hl=en&ei=g3WxTKmbBYGycdDv9LIG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=karit%20Cucumis%20trigonus&f=false >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> More comments, please. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Regards. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected] >>> > >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, >>> >> >>> I have gone through the links sent by you. I am not yet satisfied. >>> We >>> >> >>> definitely have achieved quite a bit but I will keep looking for >>> what >>> >> >>> I think is the correct identity. At the same time, I must admit >>> that I >>> >> >>> am a lay person and may be wrong. >>> >> >>> Regards >>> >> >>> Yazdy. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> > Friends we seem to be reaching somewhere. >>> >> >>> > Firstly let us not confuse plant uploaded by Dinesh ji with what >>> is >>> >> >>> > established Kachri fruit. Kachri is botanically Cucumis trigonis >>> now >>> >> >>> > correctly known as C. melo subsp. agrestris var. agrestris. A >>> fruit >>> >> >>> > which >>> >> >>> > rarely exceeds 4 cm in length, is a mini version of watermelon >>> in >>> >> >>> > color, >>> >> >>> > fruit green with dark green stripes. And important KACHRI IS >>> EDIBLE >>> >> >>> > AND >>> >> >>> > POPULARLY USED AS VEGETABLE IN VILLAGES. The young fruit of C. >>> melo >>> >> >>> > would >>> >> >>> > never have tubercles, it may be softly pubescent. >>> >> >>> > http://madteaparty.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/a-strange-gourd/ >>> >> >>> > http://efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=86657&flora_id=5 >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > The plant uploaded by Dinesh ji and Yazdy ji if it is wild, >>> bitter >>> >> >>> > and >>> >> >>> > not >>> >> >>> > edible (as informed by Yazdy ji, , surely we have reached C. >>> sativus >>> >> >>> > var. >>> >> >>> > hardwickii (Royle) Alef. (syn: C. hardwickii Royle) the wild >>> >> >>> > cucumber, >>> >> >>> > considered by some to be the progenitor of C. sativus var. >>> sativus. >>> >> >>> > If that is so we have achieved a lot in this series on >>> cucurbits. >>> >> >>> > And thanks Dinesh ji for uploading these photographs again and >>> >> >>> > again. >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > -- >>> >> >>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> >> >>> > Retired Associate Professor >>> >> >>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> >> >>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> >> >>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> >> >>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Yazdy Palia < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> This is not Zehneria Scabra. Please go through the link for >>> Zeneria >>> >> >>> >> scabra. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Zehneria+scabra&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364 >>> >> >>> >> Regards >>> >> >>> >> Yazdy. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Aboli Kulkarni >>> >> >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > hello everyone, >>> >> >>> >> > I think this is wild cucumber ( Zehneria scabra)... this is >>> very >>> >> >>> >> > common... we can easily see this in the vicinity of our >>> home... >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> > On Oct 9, 9:15 am, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >> This is not cucumber. It is a wild fruit, we have a lot of >>> >> >>> >> >> discussion >>> >> >>> >> >> recently. It is normally found around cowsheds as the >>> animals >>> >> >>> >> >> enjoy >>> >> >>> >> >> the fruits in the wild and the seeds sprout from the dried >>> >> >>> >> >> cattle >>> >> >>> >> >> dropping. We have a lot of it in our area. >>> >> >>> >> >> Regards >>> >> >>> >> >> Yazdy. >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke >>> >> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> >>> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >> > Cucumis sativus >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber >>> >> >>> >> >> > sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • >>> Assamese: >>> >> >>> >> >> > তিয়ঁহ >>> >> >>> >> >> > tiyoh, >>> >> >>> >> >> > তিঁহু tihu • Bengali: শশা sasa • Gujarati: કાકડી kakadi • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Hindi: >>> >> >>> >> >> > खीरा >>> >> >>> >> >> > khira >>> >> >>> >> >> > • Kannada: ಸೌತೆಕಾಯಿ sautekayi • Kashmiri: लौरू loru • >>> Konkani: >>> >> >>> >> >> > तौशे >>> >> >>> >> >> > taushe • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Lushai: fang-hma • Malayalam: വെള്ളരി vellari • Manipuri: >>> থবী >>> >> >>> >> >> > thabi • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Marathi: काकडी kakadi, कांकडी kankadi, खिरा khira, तवशी >>> >> >>> >> >> > tavashi • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Nepalese: >>> >> >>> >> >> > काँक्रो kankro, खिर् khir, खिरो khiro, खिर्-काँक्रि >>> khir-kakri >>> >> >>> >> >> > • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Oriya: >>> >> >>> >> >> > kakudi • Persian: خيار khiyar • Prakrit: खीरओ khira-o • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Punjabi: >>> >> >>> >> >> > ਖੀਰਾ >>> >> >>> >> >> > khira >>> >> >>> >> >> > • Sanskrit: अल्पणः alpanah, अल्पणकः alpanakah, चर्भटी >>> >> >>> >> >> > charbati, >>> >> >>> >> >> > ईर्वारुः >>> >> >>> >> >> > irvaaruh, क्षीरकः kshirakah, त्रपुलम् trapulam, त्रपुसम् >>> >> >>> >> >> > trapusam >>> >> >>> >> >> > • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Sindhi: >>> >> >>> >> >> > وَنگيِ vangii • Tamil: வெள்ளரி vellari • Telugu: దోస dosa, >>> కీర >>> >> >>> >> >> > kira • >>> >> >>> >> >> > Urdu: >>> >> >>> >> >> > کهيرا khira >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Attached views from town of Pali (famous for one of super >>> >> >>> >> >> > eight >>> >> >>> >> >> > temples of >>> >> >>> >> >> > Lord Ganesha) >>> >> >>> >> >> > ... these were posted in earlier thread for ID query ... >>> >> >>> >> >> > resolved >>> >> >>> >> >> > by >>> >> >>> >> >> > Gurcharan ji. >>> >> >>> >> >> > ... more views at >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>> http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=91314344%40N00&q=Cucumissativus&m=tags >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> > Regards.- Hide quoted text - >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text - >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> >> >
