Then perhaps I will stick to C. sativus var. hardwickii
-- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> wrote: > However, it is used in ayurveda. > Regards > Yazdy. > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Gurcharan ji, these are not planted for sure... however these are found >> growing along roadsides and forest trails (may be found to a certain depth >> in forests). >> About inedibility, will get to know from the local folks. >> >> Many thanks for resolving the ID. >> Regards. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Thanks Yazdi ji and Dinesh ji >>> Having agreed on C. sativus, you have now to confirm two things: First is >>> it wild? and secondly is it bitter and inedible? If these two things are >>> correct, it would be C. sativus var. hardwickii. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ <http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, >>>> Many thanks for the definition. According to the definition, it does >>>> appear to be C Sativus. Attaching a picture of sliced fruit. The seeds too >>>> look like cucumber. My only doubt was that in none of the pictures did we >>>> find this fruit. However, if we do go by the definition, it is C. Sativus. >>>> Regards >>>> Regards >>>> Yazdy. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Gurcharan Singh >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yazdi ji >>>>> >>>>> May be these can help you >>>>> >>>>> Eflora of Pakistan >>>>> >>>>> 2 >>>>> (1)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-1> >>>>> Leaf >>>>> lobes acute. Ovary hispidulous. Fruit elongated or cylindric, rarely ovoid >>>>> 1 Cucumis >>>>> sativus<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200022616>+Leaf >>>>> lobes not acute. Ovary hairy or densely white woolly. Fruit polymorphic, >>>>> mostly rounded, ovoid or ellipsoid >>>>> (3)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-3> >>>>> 3 >>>>> (2)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-2> >>>>> Leaves >>>>> usually deeply 5(-7)-lobed, scabrid. Corolla up to 10 mm long. Fruit >>>>> oblong >>>>> or obscurely trigonus, upto 7 cm long. Plants wild 3 Cucumis melo >>>>> subsp. agrestis var. >>>>> agr<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250077277> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hortus Third >>>>> >>>>> C. sativus: Rough-hary. Leaves triangular-ovate, pointed, often >>>>> somewhat 3-lobed, flowers short stalked and clustered in axils on main >>>>> stem. >>>>> Fruit prickly when young. >>>>> >>>>> C. melo: Softly hairy. Leaves round-ovate to nearly reniform, obtuse. >>>>> Flower long stalked. Young fruit pubescent. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh ji, >>>>>> Thank you for being so patient with this lay person. I will go through >>>>>> the links copied by you. I do not recollect having stated that it is >>>>>> melon(c melo). The only reason I have been maintaining that it is not >>>>>> c sativus is because , I see no picture that is matching the pictures >>>>>> attached by me. I do not know the definition of C sativus. Shall try >>>>>> to go through and find out the definition and revert back. >>>>>> Thank you once again for being so patient. >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Yazdy >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> > Yazdy ji >>>>>> > Just try to compare and decide does this plant resemble more with >>>>>> melon (C. >>>>>> > melo) or cucumber (C. sativus)? You should get the answer. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Exactly Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, I have been going through many a >>>>>> site >>>>>> >> but am not able to see a single picture of the cucumis that we had >>>>>> >> uploaded. Somewhere I did read that a bitter cucumis is seen in the >>>>>> >> wild and it is also used in Ayurveda but it has no English name. >>>>>> >> I am still on the lookout for any entry of this cucumis or should I >>>>>> >> say cucurbit (please correct me). >>>>>> >> Regards >>>>>> >> Yazdy. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>> >> > This is what should be Cucumis melo ssp. agrestris and not one >>>>>> uploaded >>>>>> >> > by >>>>>> >> > Dinesh ji and Yazdi ji >>>>>> >> > Note pubescent young fruits and absence of tubercles >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/africa_dojo/FakaraPlants/Contents/Species_pages/images/CucummelM1_l.jpg >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > -- >>>>>> >> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> >> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> >> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> >> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> >> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> >> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>> >> > wrote: >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> Many thanks Yazdy ji for the good spirits !! >>>>>> >> >> Many thanks to Gurcharan ji for Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii. >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> After having surfed for more information related to Mani ji's >>>>>> input ... >>>>>> >> >> ... found that the "wild cucumber" used during Deepavali >>>>>> festival >>>>>> >> >> (ritual >>>>>> >> >> common in Maharashtra) is known by so many names: >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> कारिंट karinta >>>>>> >> >> कारीट karita >>>>>> >> >> कडू कारीट kadu karita (एक प्रकारचे कडू फळ ... a kind of bitter >>>>>> fruit) >>>>>> >> >> चिराटे chiraate >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> - reading in English (search karit for getting to the context): >>>>>> >> >> ... >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t2687.html >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> - reading in Hindi (search कारीट for getting to the context) : >>>>>> >> >> ... http://www.nanijdham.org/hi_1/faq.php >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> - reading in Marathi (search कारीट for getting to the context) >>>>>> : >>>>>> >> >> ... www.loksatta.com/old/daily/20021103/lokviv4.htm >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> Narrowing down to following in this order: >>>>>> >> >> - Cucumis trigonus var. pubescens (syn. C. pseudo-colocynthis >>>>>> var. >>>>>> >> >> pubescens) >>>>>> >> >> - Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii (syn: C. hardwickii ) >>>>>> >> >> - Citrullus colocynthis ... ruling out >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> Tending to get convinced with Cucumis trigonus (var. pubescens) >>>>>> : >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> - Dr. K.M. Nadkarni's Indian Materia Medica., Volume 2 By K. M. >>>>>> >> >> Nadkarni, >>>>>> >> >> A. K. Nadkarni ... interesting reading >>>>>> >> >> ... >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=RA4Npohz4CEC&pg=PA405&lpg=PA405&dq=karit+Cucumis+trigonus&source=bl&ots=tY9YsdgjWC&sig=rlU22HIJCTJEq7HiwMi8wpge9D4&hl=en&ei=g3WxTKmbBYGycdDv9LIG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=karit%20Cucumis%20trigonus&f=false >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> More comments, please. >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> Regards. >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Yazdy Palia < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>> >> >> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, >>>>>> >> >>> I have gone through the links sent by you. I am not yet >>>>>> satisfied. We >>>>>> >> >>> definitely have achieved quite a bit but I will keep looking >>>>>> for what >>>>>> >> >>> I think is the correct identity. At the same time, I must admit >>>>>> that I >>>>>> >> >>> am a lay person and may be wrong. >>>>>> >> >>> Regards >>>>>> >> >>> Yazdy. >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>> >> >>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>> > Friends we seem to be reaching somewhere. >>>>>> >> >>> > Firstly let us not confuse plant uploaded by Dinesh ji with >>>>>> what is >>>>>> >> >>> > established Kachri fruit. Kachri is botanically Cucumis >>>>>> trigonis now >>>>>> >> >>> > correctly known as C. melo subsp. agrestris var. agrestris. A >>>>>> fruit >>>>>> >> >>> > which >>>>>> >> >>> > rarely exceeds 4 cm in length, is a mini version of >>>>>> watermelon in >>>>>> >> >>> > color, >>>>>> >> >>> > fruit green with dark green stripes. And important KACHRI IS >>>>>> EDIBLE >>>>>> >> >>> > AND >>>>>> >> >>> > POPULARLY USED AS VEGETABLE IN VILLAGES. The young fruit of >>>>>> C. melo >>>>>> >> >>> > would >>>>>> >> >>> > never have tubercles, it may be softly pubescent. >>>>>> >> >>> > http://madteaparty.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/a-strange-gourd/ >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> http://efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=86657&flora_id=5 >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> >> >>> > The plant uploaded by Dinesh ji and Yazdy ji if it is wild, >>>>>> bitter >>>>>> >> >>> > and >>>>>> >> >>> > not >>>>>> >> >>> > edible (as informed by Yazdy ji, , surely we have reached C. >>>>>> sativus >>>>>> >> >>> > var. >>>>>> >> >>> > hardwickii (Royle) Alef. (syn: C. hardwickii Royle) the wild >>>>>> >> >>> > cucumber, >>>>>> >> >>> > considered by some to be the progenitor of C. sativus var. >>>>>> sativus. >>>>>> >> >>> > If that is so we have achieved a lot in this series on >>>>>> cucurbits. >>>>>> >> >>> > And thanks Dinesh ji for uploading these photographs again >>>>>> and >>>>>> >> >>> > again. >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> >> >>> > -- >>>>>> >> >>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> >> >>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> >> >>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> >> >>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> >> >>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> >> >>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> >> >>> > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Yazdy Palia < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>> >> >>> > wrote: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> This is not Zehneria Scabra. Please go through the link for >>>>>> Zeneria >>>>>> >> >>> >> scabra. >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Zehneria+scabra&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364 >>>>>> >> >>> >> Regards >>>>>> >> >>> >> Yazdy. >>>>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Aboli Kulkarni >>>>>> >> >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>> >> > hello everyone, >>>>>> >> >>> >> > I think this is wild cucumber ( Zehneria scabra)... this >>>>>> is very >>>>>> >> >>> >> > common... we can easily see this in the vicinity of our >>>>>> home... >>>>>> >> >>> >> > >>>>>> >> >>> >> > On Oct 9, 9:15 am, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> This is not cucumber. It is a wild fruit, we have a lot >>>>>> of >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> discussion >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> recently. It is normally found around cowsheds as the >>>>>> animals >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> enjoy >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> the fruits in the wild and the seeds sprout from the >>>>>> dried >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> cattle >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> dropping. We have a lot of it in our area. >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> Regards >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> Yazdy. >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Cucumis sativus >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • >>>>>> Assamese: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > তিয়ঁহ >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > tiyoh, >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > তিঁহু tihu • Bengali: শশা sasa • Gujarati: કાકડી kakadi >>>>>> • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Hindi: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > खीरा >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > khira >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • Kannada: ಸೌತೆಕಾಯಿ sautekayi • Kashmiri: लौरू loru • >>>>>> Konkani: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > तौशे >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > taushe • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Lushai: fang-hma • Malayalam: വെള്ളരി vellari • >>>>>> Manipuri: থবী >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > thabi • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Marathi: काकडी kakadi, कांकडी kankadi, खिरा khira, तवशी >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > tavashi • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Nepalese: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > काँक्रो kankro, खिर् khir, खिरो khiro, खिर्-काँक्रि >>>>>> khir-kakri >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Oriya: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > kakudi • Persian: خيار khiyar • Prakrit: खीरओ khira-o • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Punjabi: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ਖੀਰਾ >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > khira >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • Sanskrit: अल्पणः alpanah, अल्पणकः alpanakah, चर्भटी >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > charbati, >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ईर्वारुः >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > irvaaruh, क्षीरकः kshirakah, त्रपुलम् trapulam, >>>>>> त्रपुसम् >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > trapusam >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Sindhi: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > وَنگيِ vangii • Tamil: வெள்ளரி vellari • Telugu: దోస >>>>>> dosa, కీర >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > kira • >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Urdu: >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > کهيرا khira >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Attached views from town of Pali (famous for one of >>>>>> super >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > eight >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > temples of >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Lord Ganesha) >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ... these were posted in earlier thread for ID query >>>>>> ... >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > resolved >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > by >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Gurcharan ji. >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > ... more views at >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > > > >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=91314344%40N00&q=Cucumissativus&m=tags >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> > Regards.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text - >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> >> >>> > >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
