Gurcharan ji, your logical question of melon v/s cucumber and key at eflora to distinguish them, all points towards cucumber category ... many thanks for the clarity, thoughts about this fruit being used during Deepavali have to be erased.
Regards. On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > Yazdi ji > > May be these can help you > > Eflora of Pakistan > > 2 (1)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-1> > Leaf > lobes acute. Ovary hispidulous. Fruit elongated or cylindric, rarely ovoid > 1 Cucumis > sativus<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200022616>+Leaf > lobes not acute. Ovary hairy or densely white woolly. Fruit polymorphic, > mostly rounded, ovoid or ellipsoid > (3)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-3> > 3 > (2)<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=108642#KEY-1-2> > Leaves > usually deeply 5(-7)-lobed, scabrid. Corolla up to 10 mm long. Fruit oblong > or obscurely trigonus, upto 7 cm long. Plants wild 3 Cucumis melo subsp. > agrestis var. > agr<http://efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250077277> > > > Hortus Third > > C. sativus: Rough-hary. Leaves triangular-ovate, pointed, often somewhat > 3-lobed, flowers short stalked and clustered in axils on main stem. Fruit > prickly when young. > > C. melo: Softly hairy. Leaves round-ovate to nearly reniform, obtuse. > Flower long stalked. Young fruit pubescent. > > > -- > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ <http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh ji, >> Thank you for being so patient with this lay person. I will go through >> the links copied by you. I do not recollect having stated that it is >> melon(c melo). The only reason I have been maintaining that it is not >> c sativus is because , I see no picture that is matching the pictures >> attached by me. I do not know the definition of C sativus. Shall try >> to go through and find out the definition and revert back. >> Thank you once again for being so patient. >> Regards >> Yazdy >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Yazdy ji >> > Just try to compare and decide does this plant resemble more with melon >> (C. >> > melo) or cucumber (C. sativus)? You should get the answer. >> > >> > -- >> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> > Retired Associate Professor >> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ <http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >> > >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:57 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Exactly Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, I have been going through many a site >> >> but am not able to see a single picture of the cucumis that we had >> >> uploaded. Somewhere I did read that a bitter cucumis is seen in the >> >> wild and it is also used in Ayurveda but it has no English name. >> >> I am still on the lookout for any entry of this cucumis or should I >> >> say cucurbit (please correct me). >> >> Regards >> >> Yazdy. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> > This is what should be Cucumis melo ssp. agrestris and not one >> uploaded >> >> > by >> >> > Dinesh ji and Yazdi ji >> >> > Note pubescent young fruits and absence of tubercles >> >> > >> >> > >> http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/africa_dojo/FakaraPlants/Contents/Species_pages/images/CucummelM1_l.jpg >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >> > Retired Associate Professor >> >> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Dinesh Valke < >> [email protected]> >> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Many thanks Yazdy ji for the good spirits !! >> >> >> Many thanks to Gurcharan ji for Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii. >> >> >> >> >> >> After having surfed for more information related to Mani ji's input >> ... >> >> >> ... found that the "wild cucumber" used during Deepavali festival >> >> >> (ritual >> >> >> common in Maharashtra) is known by so many names: >> >> >> >> >> >> कारिंट karinta >> >> >> कारीट karita >> >> >> कडू कारीट kadu karita (एक प्रकारचे कडू फळ ... a kind of bitter >> fruit) >> >> >> चिराटे chiraate >> >> >> >> >> >> - reading in English (search karit for getting to the context): >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t2687.html >> >> >> >> >> >> - reading in Hindi (search कारीट for getting to the context) : >> >> >> ... http://www.nanijdham.org/hi_1/faq.php >> >> >> >> >> >> - reading in Marathi (search कारीट for getting to the context) : >> >> >> ... www.loksatta.com/old/daily/20021103/lokviv4.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Narrowing down to following in this order: >> >> >> - Cucumis trigonus var. pubescens (syn. C. pseudo-colocynthis var. >> >> >> pubescens) >> >> >> - Cucumis sativus var. hardwickii (syn: C. hardwickii ) >> >> >> - Citrullus colocynthis ... ruling out >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tending to get convinced with Cucumis trigonus (var. pubescens) : >> >> >> >> >> >> - Dr. K.M. Nadkarni's Indian Materia Medica., Volume 2 By K. M. >> >> >> Nadkarni, >> >> >> A. K. Nadkarni ... interesting reading >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> http://books.google.co.in/books?id=RA4Npohz4CEC&pg=PA405&lpg=PA405&dq=karit+Cucumis+trigonus&source=bl&ots=tY9YsdgjWC&sig=rlU22HIJCTJEq7HiwMi8wpge9D4&hl=en&ei=g3WxTKmbBYGycdDv9LIG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=karit%20Cucumis%20trigonus&f=false >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> More comments, please. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Regards. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Dear Dr. Gurcharan Singh Ji, >> >> >>> I have gone through the links sent by you. I am not yet satisfied. >> We >> >> >>> definitely have achieved quite a bit but I will keep looking for >> what >> >> >>> I think is the correct identity. At the same time, I must admit >> that I >> >> >>> am a lay person and may be wrong. >> >> >>> Regards >> >> >>> Yazdy. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >> [email protected]> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> > Friends we seem to be reaching somewhere. >> >> >>> > Firstly let us not confuse plant uploaded by Dinesh ji with what >> is >> >> >>> > established Kachri fruit. Kachri is botanically Cucumis trigonis >> now >> >> >>> > correctly known as C. melo subsp. agrestris var. agrestris. A >> fruit >> >> >>> > which >> >> >>> > rarely exceeds 4 cm in length, is a mini version of watermelon in >> >> >>> > color, >> >> >>> > fruit green with dark green stripes. And important KACHRI IS >> EDIBLE >> >> >>> > AND >> >> >>> > POPULARLY USED AS VEGETABLE IN VILLAGES. The young fruit of C. >> melo >> >> >>> > would >> >> >>> > never have tubercles, it may be softly pubescent. >> >> >>> > http://madteaparty.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/a-strange-gourd/ >> >> >>> > http://efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=86657&flora_id=5 >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > The plant uploaded by Dinesh ji and Yazdy ji if it is wild, >> bitter >> >> >>> > and >> >> >>> > not >> >> >>> > edible (as informed by Yazdy ji, , surely we have reached C. >> sativus >> >> >>> > var. >> >> >>> > hardwickii (Royle) Alef. (syn: C. hardwickii Royle) the wild >> >> >>> > cucumber, >> >> >>> > considered by some to be the progenitor of C. sativus var. >> sativus. >> >> >>> > If that is so we have achieved a lot in this series on cucurbits. >> >> >>> > And thanks Dinesh ji for uploading these photographs again and >> >> >>> > again. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > -- >> >> >>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >> >>> > Retired Associate Professor >> >> >>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >> >>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >> >>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >> >>> > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/<http://people.du.ac.in/%7Esinghg45/> >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Yazdy Palia < >> [email protected]> >> >> >>> > wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> This is not Zehneria Scabra. Please go through the link for >> Zeneria >> >> >>> >> scabra. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> http://www.google.co.in/search?q=Zehneria+scabra&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___IN364 >> >> >>> >> Regards >> >> >>> >> Yazdy. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Aboli Kulkarni >> >> >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>> >> > hello everyone, >> >> >>> >> > I think this is wild cucumber ( Zehneria scabra)... this is >> very >> >> >>> >> > common... we can easily see this in the vicinity of our >> home... >> >> >>> >> > >> >> >>> >> > On Oct 9, 9:15 am, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> This is not cucumber. It is a wild fruit, we have a lot of >> >> >>> >> >> discussion >> >> >>> >> >> recently. It is normally found around cowsheds as the animals >> >> >>> >> >> enjoy >> >> >>> >> >> the fruits in the wild and the seeds sprout from the dried >> >> >>> >> >> cattle >> >> >>> >> >> dropping. We have a lot of it in our area. >> >> >>> >> >> Regards >> >> >>> >> >> Yazdy. >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Dinesh Valke >> >> >>> >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> >>> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> > Cucumis sativus >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > KOO-koo-mis -- from the Greek kykyon meaning, cucumber >> >> >>> >> >> > sa-TEE-vus -- cultivated >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > commonly known as: cucumber • Arabic: خيار khiyar • >> Assamese: >> >> >>> >> >> > তিয়ঁহ >> >> >>> >> >> > tiyoh, >> >> >>> >> >> > তিঁহু tihu • Bengali: শশা sasa • Gujarati: કાકડી kakadi • >> >> >>> >> >> > Hindi: >> >> >>> >> >> > खीरा >> >> >>> >> >> > khira >> >> >>> >> >> > • Kannada: ಸೌತೆಕಾಯಿ sautekayi • Kashmiri: लौरू loru • >> Konkani: >> >> >>> >> >> > तौशे >> >> >>> >> >> > taushe • >> >> >>> >> >> > Lushai: fang-hma • Malayalam: വെള്ളരി vellari • Manipuri: >> থবী >> >> >>> >> >> > thabi • >> >> >>> >> >> > Marathi: काकडी kakadi, कांकडी kankadi, खिरा khira, तवशी >> >> >>> >> >> > tavashi • >> >> >>> >> >> > Nepalese: >> >> >>> >> >> > काँक्रो kankro, खिर् khir, खिरो khiro, खिर्-काँक्रि >> khir-kakri >> >> >>> >> >> > • >> >> >>> >> >> > Oriya: >> >> >>> >> >> > kakudi • Persian: خيار khiyar • Prakrit: खीरओ khira-o • >> >> >>> >> >> > Punjabi: >> >> >>> >> >> > ਖੀਰਾ >> >> >>> >> >> > khira >> >> >>> >> >> > • Sanskrit: अल्पणः alpanah, अल्पणकः alpanakah, चर्भटी >> >> >>> >> >> > charbati, >> >> >>> >> >> > ईर्वारुः >> >> >>> >> >> > irvaaruh, क्षीरकः kshirakah, त्रपुलम् trapulam, त्रपुसम् >> >> >>> >> >> > trapusam >> >> >>> >> >> > • >> >> >>> >> >> > Sindhi: >> >> >>> >> >> > وَنگيِ vangii • Tamil: வெள்ளரி vellari • Telugu: దోస dosa, >> కీర >> >> >>> >> >> > kira • >> >> >>> >> >> > Urdu: >> >> >>> >> >> > کهيرا khira >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Attached views from town of Pali (famous for one of super >> >> >>> >> >> > eight >> >> >>> >> >> > temples of >> >> >>> >> >> > Lord Ganesha) >> >> >>> >> >> > ... these were posted in earlier thread for ID query ... >> >> >>> >> >> > resolved >> >> >>> >> >> > by >> >> >>> >> >> > Gurcharan ji. >> >> >>> >> >> > ... more views at >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > >> >> >>> >> >> > > > >> http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=91314344%40N00&q=Cucumissativus&m=tags >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Regards.- Hide quoted text - >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
