Can anyone please get the protologue of Xanthium indicum from Hortus Bengalensis? Pankaj
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 7:26 PM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: > yes this what we find in Maharashtra and adjoining area.. > regards > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 4:53 PM, Pankaj Kumar <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Please find the lectotype of Xanthium strumarium attached for >> reference. HS can you please check if this is the same which grows in >> Maharastra. >> We need to check Xanthium indicum too. >> Regards >> Pankaj >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Dr Pankaj Kumar >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> > From: Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >> > Date: Oct 20, 6:12 pm >> > Subject: Xanthium indicum >> > To: efloraofindia >> > >> > >> > Yes that must be true >> > >> > -- >> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> > Retired Associate Professor >> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 3:16 PM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Sirji i guess people called the same species as X. indicum instead of >> >> X. >> >> strumarium before Clarke cleared the things. >> > >> >> regards, >> > >> >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Gurcharan Singh >> >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> >>> Yes H S >> >>> X. strumarium L. and X. indicum Roxb. are same species as per most >> >>> databases and publication, but looking at the fact that X. indicum was >> >>> described from India nearly more than 200 years and X. strumarium >> >>> described >> >>> in Clarke Compositae Indicae nearly 150 years ago, it may not be >> >>> appropriate >> >>> to call is an introduced weed at this stage. >> >>> But there is another species X. spinosus, which has been recently >> >>> introduced in Kashmir, and was uploaded by me on Flowers of India. >> > >> >>> -- >> >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>> Retired Associate Professor >> >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> >>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 2:13 PM, H S <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >>>> Dear all, >> >>>> Here in Maharashtra we get mostly one species i.e. Xanthium >> >>>> strumarium L. >> >>>> which is seen as a roadside weed, no doubt its an introduced species. >> >>>> Xanthium indicum Koeng. ex Roxb. is synonym of X. strumarium i guess, >> >>>> if its >> >>>> a reliable different species atleast i have not seen it. it will be >> >>>> great if >> >>>> someone upload both species photographs on the site.. >> > >> >>>> regards, >> > >> >>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 1:33 PM, ushadi Micromini < >> >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >>>>> Gurucharanji::)... >> > >> >>>>> no no... you are most level headed guy... except when you get mad... >> >>>>> :), >> > >> >>>>> there is no fear of you getting a swollen head... >> > >> >>>>> by "You" i hope you meant ONE ... someone.. a nebulous anybody who >> >>>>> gets >> >>>>> fixed ideas and wont budge''' >> > >> >>>>> "you" is not USHA DI >> > >> >>>>> I never have fixed ideas... most open mind... >> > >> >>>>> except in a few cases: >> >>>>> like: >> >>>>> a lady is pregnant or not... there is no such thing a little bit >> >>>>> pregnant... >> >>>>> secondly... if there is cancer in some organs or lymph nodes ... >> >>>>> its no >> >>>>> longer benign... >> >>>>> I had once had a boss who used to make diagnosis like: i see a few >> >>>>> cancer cells in this group.. three lymph nodes have them... and >> >>>>> final >> >>>>> diagnosis : Benign lymph nodes... >> >>>>> or this biopsy has a few cancer cells: final diagnosis: benign >> >>>>> polyp... >> >>>>> stupid >> > >> >>>>> and I had to clean up his mess... messy inept diagnosis like that ( >> >>>>> and >> >>>>> he got the big money for being the boss) ... no open mind about >> >>>>> fooling the >> >>>>> patient or just plain ineptitude by/of such stupid doctors... >> > >> >>>>> OTHERWISE...I HAVE A MOST OPEN MIND... >> > >> >>>>> in my camera club I even had a category called OPEN MIND... way >> >>>>> back in >> >>>>> 1980....lots of members won prizes in that category, including yours >> >>>>> truly... open mind is FUN.... >> > >> >>>>> and least stressful, judging from the conversations / clues provided >> >>>>> by >> >>>>> the most stressed out patients in my mind-body medicine seminars and >> >>>>> groups...who tend to have least open mind... they make up their >> >>>>> minds too >> >>>>> rapidly and see the world in black and white... no grey zones... >> >>>>> but as >> >>>>> nature made it all situations have a large-wide grey zone... open >> >>>>> mind >> >>>>> area ... >> >>>>> ... >> > >> >>>>> BUT open mind also does not mean pushover... I can not be pushed >> >>>>> around >> >>>>> or put down by sexists or inept diagnosticians or arrogance etc >> >>>>> etc... but >> >>>>> that's another story.. >> > >> >>>>> Usha di >> >>>>> ========== >> > >> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Gurcharan Singh >> >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> >>>>>> Ushadi >> >>>>>> Don,t pump us so much. If it gets into our head? >> >>>>>> The conversation always flows like this if you don't have fixed >> >>>>>> ideas. >> >>>>>> We believe in open exchange of information. >> > >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >> >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Ushadi micromini < >> >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >>>>>>> Wonderful learning conversation.... and sooo mature way of putting >> >>>>>>> ideas... >> > >> >>>>>>> thank you folks >> >>>>>>> I wish all our conversations were this collegial... >> > >> >>>>>>> Coming back to this case.. it may no be a high prioroty plant for >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> naming/restructuring of classification group/s... >> > >> >>>>>>> usha di >> > >> >>>>>>> ==== >> >>>>>>> On Oct 20, 8:27 am, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>> > Yes Pankaj ji >> >>>>>>> > I found it out from IPNI and Compositae Checklist. >> >>>>>>> > Thanks for information >> > >> >>>>>>> > -- >> >>>>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>>>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >> >>>>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>>>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>>>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>>>>>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> >>>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Pankaj Kumar < >> >>>>>>> [email protected]>wrote: >> > >> >>>>>>> > > Xanthium strumarium Elliott Sketch Bot. S. Carolina 2: 479 >> >>>>>>> > > (1823). >> >>>>>>> > > This is the full citation of the same name. >> >>>>>>> > > I understood your point. May be once the other strumarium is >> >>>>>>> resolved, >> >>>>>>> > > they will be able to resolve this one also :). >> >>>>>>> > > Pankaj >> > >> >>>>>>> > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Gurcharan Singh < >> >>>>>>> [email protected]> >> >>>>>>> > > wrote: >> >>>>>>> > > > Pankaj ji >> >>>>>>> > > > But interestingly Xanthium strumarium (without any author) >> >>>>>>> > > > is >> >>>>>>> accepted >> >>>>>>> > > name >> >>>>>>> > > > according to the Plant List, with X. chinense Mill. as >> >>>>>>> > > > synonym I >> >>>>>>> am tired >> >>>>>>> > > of >> >>>>>>> > > > pointing out corrections to them. >> > >> >>>>>>> > > > -- >> >>>>>>> > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>>>>>> > > > Retired Associate Professor >> >>>>>>> > > > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>>>>>> > > > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>>>>>> > > > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>>>>>> > > >http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> >>>>>>> > > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Dr Pankaj Kumar < >> >>>>>>> [email protected] >> > >> >>>>>>> > > > wrote: >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> There are many provisions in ICBN to conserve names which >> >>>>>>> > > >> may >> >>>>>>> actually >> >>>>>>> > > >> be wrong. >> >>>>>>> > > >> Article 14.2.of ICBN says, "Conservation aims at retention >> >>>>>>> > > >> of >> >>>>>>> those >> >>>>>>> > > >> names which best serve stability of nomenclature". >> >>>>>>> > > >> Stability like, the name of family Orchidaceae Juss., Gen. >> >>>>>>> > > >> Pl.: >> >>>>>>> 64. 4 >> >>>>>>> > > >> Aug 1789. is conserved against Orchidaceae Adanson, Fam. >> >>>>>>> > > >> des >> >>>>>>> plantes >> >>>>>>> > > >> 2: 68 1763. >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> Just based on the popularity of usage, Xanthium indicum may >> >>>>>>> > > >> be >> >>>>>>> > > >> considered conserved, but it is not yet conserved, as >> >>>>>>> > > >> atleast >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> > > >> plant list or GRIN doesnt consider them as same. >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> For this particular case, it is yet to be resolved >> >>>>>>> > > >> according to >> >>>>>>> The >> >>>>>>> > > >> Plant List and both are till now considered distinct >> >>>>>>> > > >> species >> >>>>>>> with >> >>>>>>> > > >> Xanthium indicum Roxb. is an unresolved name but synonymous >> >>>>>>> with >> >>>>>>> > > >> Xanthium inaequilaterum DC.. >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> WHEREAS >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> Xanthium strumarium L. Sp. Pl. 987 1753 is an unresolved >> >>>>>>> > > >> name. >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> Regards >> >>>>>>> > > >> Pankaj >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> On Oct 20, 2:25 am, Satish Phadke <[email protected]> >> >>>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>>> > > >> > Agreed it has to be vice versa. Thanks for pointing out >> >>>>>>> > > >> > that. >> >>>>>>> Even The >> >>>>>>> > > >> > plant >> >>>>>>> > > >> > list has something else to say. I cant go more deeper in >> >>>>>>> that >> >>>>>>> > > context. >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Gurcharan Singh >> >>>>>>> > > >> > <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > Satish ji >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > Yes the identification is correct, but I fail to >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > understand >> >>>>>>> how >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > Xanthium >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > strumarium, a much earlier name be synonym and X. >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > indicum, >> >>>>>>> the >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > accepted name >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > -- >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > Retired Associate Professor >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Satish Phadke >> >>>>>>> > > >> > > <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> *Xanthium indicum* Syn *Xanthium strumarium* >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Family : Asteraceae >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Marathi : Shankeshwar शंकेश्वर A vweed common on >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> roadside >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Observed flowering in open areas around Pune city last >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> few >> >>>>>>> days >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Large herb Annual about 1m in height. >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Stem branches rough hairy. >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Leaves serrate alternate 5-8 cm ovate acute triangular >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> or >> >>>>>>> lobed' >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> appressed >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> hairy. >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Flower heads 0.4-0.8mm across. Green when young in >> >>>>>>> terminal and >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> axillary >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> spikes.Barren heads crowded at apex. Fertile heads >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> fewer. >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> Fruits 2cm long with 2 erect mucronate beaks covered >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> with >> >>>>>>> hooked >> >>>>>>> > > >> > >> prickles. >> > >> > ... >> > >> > read more » >> >> >> >> -- >> ********************************************************************** >> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >> >> >> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >> Conservation Officer >> >> Office: >> Flora Conservation Department >> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >> >> Residence: >> 36c, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >> >> email: [email protected] >> [email protected] >> [email protected] >> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:30pm) >> +852 9436 6251 (mobile) > > > > -- > - H.S. > A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of > stone > > -- ********************************************************************** "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) Conservation Officer Office: Flora Conservation Department Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. Residence: 36c, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. email: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:30pm) +852 9436 6251 (mobile)
