This is all very good advice. The best advice I ever received was from my father who had worked with computers since the late sixties in the US Navy. He told me to think of myself as my own little company. Every job I landed was a contract between my company(ME) and the employer. It was up to me to take advantage of all opportunities and create as many new opportunities as possible. No job is too small, all experience is valuable, growing a career is like growing a business. For the first couple of years you have to do anything and everything you can, with any luck make some decent $ at it. When I was in college I attended night school classes for VB and Java which at the time were not part of the CS curriculum but obviously gaining momentum in the industry. This set me apart from the others in school and/or graduating and helped me land a very decent consulting position while still in college. Its all a matter of being proactive and persistent. The fact that your on here asking questions and (hopefully) reading everyone's responses shows that you have a genuine interest in this profession. That's not always the case.. Having a strong desire and passion for what you are doing will shine through above all else.. Always keep in mind GOOD employers invest in people not degrees, etc...
-----Original Message----- From: Hal Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:48 AM To: JDJList Subject: [jdjlist] Re: gap between universities and employers ???? I've always watched the classifieds (job ads) to see how the market is moving (both skills and salary). Most universities (at least in the US) have some kind of "co-op" program that allows you work every other semester instead of taking classes. Those jobs usually pay very well and allow you get experience in the things you see job ads asking for. It takes longer to graduate, but you come out of school with your 2 or more years of experience. Plus, you are not obligated to return to a job you didn't like, so, if you find out you really don't like designing, you can get a different job the next time without the "penalty" of switching jobs a lot (looks bad on your resume). Switching jobs each cop-op session also allows you to pad your resume. It also lets you try out different companies to see if you like working there (i.e. big company, small company, different parts of the country, etc) If you have already graduated, you may want to think about going back to school to get a masters, just so you can co-op to get the experience you need to get a "real" job. I know of people who have had to do that. Hal Humphrey Software Architect (I like that better than "engineer" --- Tim Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks Steve for that bit of input. > > Yeah -- I was just looking at the 3 IT employment websites that I > have > access to here in Australia. > > And seeing -- with Bachelors degree in Engineering in Software > Engineering -- what sort of jobs I should be able to get. I thought > that you > should be able to get a job as a "software engineer" if you graduate > with a > software engineering degree. A lot of jobs advertised on the 3 sites > that I > look through, advertise positions for "software engineers" but when > you look > at what the specifics are of what they say their job applicants "must > have", > it was as I mentioned before (below in me previous email) ( which I > included > with this one so that someone reading this would be able to follow > the train > of thought of this) that employers are wanting a whole lot of skills > and > experience that new graduates just don't have and like me, have never > heard > of even in our undergraduate degree. And yet, they still say you > "must have > these skills". > > What you said, was actually very interesting. > > I just wanted to ask if you could perhaps point to any literature > (websites, > books, journal articles, conference papers, magazine articles) that > talk > about what you mentioned in your email Steve ? > > Or anyone else who might know anything documented about this ? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Gawron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "JDJList" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:06 AM > Subject: [jdjlist] Re: gap between universities and employers ???? > > > Most universities just do not spend enough time staying current with > the way > corporations are doing business. Whether it is the time and energy > involved > in keeping abreast of what major businesses want or the difficulty in > finding qualified instructors for the current business skills with > the > curriculum vitae and are willing to work for academic wages. The > problem > has existed as you described for years. > > The current job market is a buyers market. It means without the > correct > basket of skills, they won't talk to you. No one is willing to > invest the > time to train a recent graduate who will likely leave in two or three > years. > This is reality!! > > Statistically, 8 out of ten persons end up working outside of their > field of > study. The above is a big contributor to this fact. > > Good luck, and don't get too discouraged. Sooner or later the market > changes. Business is dynamic. Companies must compete, or cease to > exist. > > Steve Gawron > > -------Original Message------- > From: "M. E. Zawadzki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: 02/03/03 10:51 AM > To: JDJList <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [jdjlist] Re: gap between universities and employers ???? > > > > > You simply get a shit job for the first couple of years to get that > experience. It's part of life. > --- Tim Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just wanted to pose a question :- > > > > Have any of you found there to be a large gap between what > universities > > produce (ie as graduates) and what employers want ? > > > > Like for example --- one employer wants someone who has experience > with > > "Advantage Gen". I have no idea what this is and have never come > across > it > > before. Maybe some of you might have heard of this ? > > > > And another employer wants someone who has skills with the > "Rational > > toolset" . I am not talking about Rational Rose but about products > like > :- > > TestManager, TeamTest, ClearCase, ClearQuest. > > > > These are just 2 examples of trying to illustrate the point that I > am > > experiencing -- that employers seem to want a whole lot of "skills" > that > are > > not taught at universities. > > > > I find this quite concerning. > > > > Also ofcourse there is the issue that almost all employers want > someone > who > > already has "2 or 3 years of commercial experience". > > > > What happens to people who have just come out of university ? What > sort > of > > job opportunities do they have when employers don't seem to want to > "give > > anything" ? ie they want someone who already knows about these new > products > > that a freshly graduated person has never heard of before. > > > > I don't know if it counts as "commercial experience" if for example > your > > university has a final year > > project -- which is a "real life" problem with a real life client > who > has > > come to the university with this problem ? I would hope that it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > To change your JDJList options, please visit: > > http://www.sys-con.com/java/list.cfm > > > > Be respectful! Clean up your posts before replying > > ____________________________________________________ > > > ===== > > Mark Zawadzki Performance Engineer/DBA/Programmer extraordinaire�?T > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Democracies die behind closed doors," - Judge Damon Keith > > "The people of this country, not special interest big money, should > be > the source of all political power. Government must remain the domain > of > the general citizenry, not a narrow elite." - Sen. Paul Wellstone > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > ____________________________________________________ > To change your JDJList options, please visit: > http://www.sys-con.com/java/list.cfm > > Be respectful! Clean up your posts before replying > ____________________________________________________ > > > > ____________________________________________________ > To change your JDJList options, please visit: > http://www.sys-con.com/java/list.cfm > > Be respectful! Clean up your posts before replying > ____________________________________________________ > > > > ____________________________________________________ > To change your JDJList options, please visit: > http://www.sys-con.com/java/list.cfm > > Be respectful! Clean up your posts before replying > ____________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________ To change your JDJList options, please visit: http://www.sys-con.com/java/list.cfm Be respectful! 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