<Colin said...> It seems to me, if I understand correctly, that what you are saying is that our genes presdeestine us to be heterosexual, mainly, but some of carry genese that although they do the same, are slightly different in that the environment can makes those genes produce homsexuality.
Wow, not at all Colin. It's tough communicating through email, I realize, but you extrapolated a lot from my original statement. I simply never said that nor much of anything you responded to below I am simply saying (and others have pointed out) that the incidence of a trait in sibilings is not direct proof that the trait is genetic as you say because you can't take the environment out of that situation. For all I care we could have been talking about IQ or introversion/extroversion. You are assuming I think sexual orientation is due to environmental factors - actually you are assuming I think homosexuality is due to child-rearing - I honestly don't think in terms of the "cause" of homosexuality - and take care to frame what I have written in terms of the nature of sexual orientation (not preference - because it is not a choice) for all people - hetero and homosexual. As I stated in another email I believe sexual orientation is influenced by genetic and environmental factors and depending on the person, that influence can be 90% genetic and 10% environment or 50/50 or whatever. I believe whole-heartedly in your belief that you and your siblings' homosexuality was soley genetically determined. I believe that about many dear friends of mine. But that is not the case for everybody. And I do agree environment is not simply "child-rearing" and indeed is used as a catchall for anything and everything that is not inherited through a specific gene - this can be environment in the womb that effects brain development, that has nothing to do with parenting. So I think maybe you have me mixed up with someone else. ;) And if I sound a little emotional, please forgive me, I was just taken aback by the assumptions you made about me and what I believe. We agree more than you think - I just take exception to your using siblings as evidence for the heritability of a complex trait like sexuality. Jenny --- colin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Siblings share half their genes and most of their > environment (at least in the home). It is impossible > to tease the environment out of the equation in that > situation. > > > perhaps so. However, people are DIFFERENT and react > differently. Are oyu > really suggesting that inm ym case, 3 gay brothers, > or in my firiends > cae, 5 gay siblings, that we all are the same which > made us react the same? > Also, if the situation is as you think it is, it > applies equally to > heterosexuals. as heterosexuals far out number > homsosexuals, are to to > assume that their environments were the same? what > is the environment > that creates a heterosexual? Having two heterosexual > parents who stayed > together and raised them? That can't be right. Not > least because many > homosexuals had the same. Or maybe it is having > conforming to stereotype > mothers and fathersi.e fem mothers and butch > fathers. There are many > many str8 people who come from single parent homes > and also from no > parent homes. There are many str8 people who had > fathers who were > distant and cold who withheld their love. Yet they > turned out straight. > Equally many who had dominering, cloying mothers who > turned out str8. > There are many str8 people who were sexually abused > by the same or > opposite sex. > Ormaybe it was soemthing in the water? > > What exactly is meant by 'environment'? It seems to > me a catch all word > and have never had an explanation of what it means. > Is there a way to > raise children to make sure they are the sexuality > that is wanted? > > I do think that 'environment', or at least my > interpretation of it as > experience, can dictate sexual tastes-ie. many > people who were spanked > as children either domestically or at school, > develop a sexual fetish > for it as adults. The fetish shared by adult babies > has a fairly obvious > root in experience. Any number of fetishes can > probably all be rooted in > experience. > > i just cannot see how how ones sexual preference for > the same or the > oppostie sex can be. it makes no sense to me. One > wouldn't expect > siblings to have the same views on life, or > contsructs about anyhting, > just ebcause they grew up in the same environment. > Apart which, I think > it is wrong to assume that just because siblings > grew up within the same > home that there environemtns were the same. perhaps > their physical > environment was the same. certainly their emotional > envrironment would > not have been the same because we are all different, > we all interpret > experience differently, we create different > meanings. > > There is also an assumption in this that something > went wrong in either > the genes or the envrironment that casues > homosexuality. i don't think so. > > It seems to me, if I understand correctly, that what > you are saying is > that our genes presdeestine us to be heterosexual, > mainly, but some of > carry genese that although they do the same, are > slightly different in > that the environment can makes those genes produce > homsexuality. when > you consider that 90% of the pop is str8, i don't > think that washes either. > > IF gay people are produced by having faulty parents, > does that mean that > str8's have perfect parents? > > I don't know the answer, these are really just > thoughts and questions. > My gut tells me that sexual preference for the same > or opposite sex is > inborn. > My guts also tells me it does not matter how we came > to be what we > are(only in the case of sex preference-i think how > we come to be the > people we are is very improtant-it helps in personal > growth and > undertsanding and comspassion etc) > > In the end, I know only that I have never had my > knees wobble, my spine > tingle, my heart sing, my mind swim, my penis get > hard at the sight of a > woman. And no amount of asking why or knowing why > will change that.(tho > of course one should never say never!) Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
