Hi guys I have to say Curt how true was the Norm Abram's effect. If I had a $ for everyone who has mentioned him to me at a show or on the telephone when selling I could give up selling because I would be richer than Tim. Norm is no longer shown over here but in his heyday a definite market driver.
I also agree with Mike about involving the crowd; the easiest way to get a crowd is to turn some noisy machinery on or better still have my friend Wayne "Crafty" Mack in your booth. To watch Wayne demonstrate a scroll saw and talk passionately about it is brilliant; and once he is in full flow he brings in his support tools i.e. the Legacy CNC and manual machines. http://www.facebook.com/CraftyMacksWoodenGifts Andy Anderson agrees with me on how good Wayne is and the proof was that in November 2012 the Wood Working Show promoter hired him to do their northern show and was very pleased with the results. Indirectly Wayne sold a couple of high end Excalibur scroll saws for me and a bunch of the entry level ones for Scheppach. In neither case was he selling for us but because he explained the pros & cons it helped people make a decision and in some cases enthused people to go home and drag out the scroll saw that was gathering dust because he had enlightened them on where they were going wrong. It is a win - win situation as Wayne enjoys it, the organiser got what he wanted and the UK press got two articles and a state visit to Wayne's workshop. Maybe Wayne could be the next Norm Abram, no cancel that idea as you folks don't speak real English and would have trouble understanding his Essex dialect or what we call Estuary English. The UK may be a small island but boy do we have our share of accents! Regards Roger From: legacy-ornamental-mills+bncbcolpp7wtyibbg5euodqkgqev4yo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills+bncBCOLPP7WTYIBBG5EUODQKGQEV4YOOTQ@googlegro ups.com] On Behalf Of curt george Sent: 06 January 2013 01:24 To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: The Woodworking Shows You know what's funny here Roger. I total agree with your assessment, But when I was reading you reply I was thinking of Norm Abrams, and the Yankee work shop TV show. The power of the media can get people moving in directions that are not even see until much latter. Much like the Martial arts, when Hollywood makes a hit movie the MA school all do well. but when there is a loll , people loose interest. JOE PUBLIC is One Flickered Dude! ;-) But don't feel bad, What comes around will eventually comes back, (the big question is , will it happen again with-in our life time.) I'm reading a book by John Jacob Hotzapffel Now. He made the world move, and take a second look at woodworking back in 1780.Which I am now starting to understand. So it happened before, and It will happen again. ;-) Thinking of Norm Abrams and John Hotzapffel in the same context. Makes my mind spin. I think Its time for me to go to bed NOW. ;-) Have a Good night. C.A.G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger H Phebey <mailto:r...@woodworkersworkshop.co.uk> To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 6:16 PM Subject: RE: The Woodworking Shows Hi guys As Bill noted down in Australia they have lost their show so they are left with one of poor quality and crap products. Over here we now have three shows that I would say are along the lines of your shows and because I sell tools I invest my money in supporting them and having a booth. For these shows to succeed you need to look at a fundamental problem and that is that three groups of people have to participate and they each have different objectives and to be satisfied with what they take away from the show be it orders, profit, knowledge or even a bargain. So you start with the organiser needing to cover his costs and having an array of interesting demonstrations and presentations to entice both the exhibitors and visitors. He also needs to make a profit and build a base for the next year. Then you come to the exhibitor, he pays for booth space, hotels, wages, living costs and trucking costs. He also wants to make a profit or at least see that he will get a return on his investment. Finally you have Joe public, they are looking for bargains or at least a deal, and also to see what is new and to have the opportunity to increase their knowledge. In my opinion the shows of 12 to 15 years ago were the glory days and they will never come back for a number of reasons. . The first and, I believe, the largest problem is getting Joe public's interest. If you don't stimulate that whilst they are young you will not get them wanting to go to shows and if your education system is like ours craft skills haves been down played in favour of academic skills which is all well and good but we are not all academic material. . The next major problem is that none of the groups listed above controls the cost associated with the hiring the venue; and that is the first and probably the biggest problem because that is where the show organiser has to start his costing's from and he has to pay what the venue owner thinks is fair. . Now I believe the internet has not only transformed how we get our knowledge and how we buy but it has also impacted the show circuit. Just look at the interchange of knowledge of this small group and I think that proves the point on where we get knowledge from compared to 20 years ago. Because we buy off the internet we have lost our local shops where we could get the products and helpful knowledge but we thought paid too much. How do these internet suppliers work, they basically sell on price so that the manufacturers have to give them the margin they demand, just like the big out of town warehouse stores they are killing the small reseller of yester year. . So when it comes to shows there is little or no margin left to give to Joe public unless they are a company that sells basically direct. So I think the way it will go is that Joe public will go to the show to learn, but I am afraid he will not save money. Further thought, over here we reckon that wood turners have deep pockets and short arms so that does not encourage potential exhibitors to take part. . I do not know whether you have local retail stores running their own shows, this again has impacted the national shows. Again these are about selling product and very little about showing and education. As for DIY shows I cannot see what you are going to gain other than how to clean carpets and ovens. The couple of DIY shows I have been to were staffed by showman demonstrators, their job was to sell the kit! They had zilch interest in educating the potential customers. One company was selling kitchen oven cleaner, we saw them painting the grease and grime on the ovens they were going to clean when we came into the show before the public came in, bunch of crooks! So folks go support what you have because otherwise you will not have even those shows! Regards Roger From: legacy-ornamental-mills+bncbdcyhnod5ukbbluoukdqkgqemwhs...@googlegroups.com [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills+bncBDCYHNOD5UKBBLUOUKDQKGQEMWHS4SQ@googlegro ups.com] On Behalf Of Louis Brown Sent: 05 January 2013 20:04 To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: The Woodworking Shows Hello, Everything you say makes sense. I'm still new to this, and the one last year in Fredericksburg was my first. My workload does not allow me to take a half-day trip this weekend, but I wish I could make it to Baltimore. I thought the entry price was low, but I guess they believe that raising prices would keep people away. From talking to vendors last year, I also learned that the growth lies in general home improvement rather than woodworking. You would think that the home improvement DIY movement would lead to people wanting more tools, but every time I go into Lowe, Home Depot, and Sears, I see fewer kinds of models and cheap ones too boot. I don't know what any of it means, but let's hope it gets better. Begat On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Va Oak <mwfos...@earthlink.net> wrote: The Woodworking Shows has begun their 2013 "Tour" - starting in Baltimore, MD. If anyone in the Group has been to it, please provide us with feedback and photos (if you took any) - especially of what Legacy presented there. I was told by Legacy that the Denver Show will be the first where they will have the Evolution. Besides Legacy, what other booths, presentations, or products di you find noteworthy? Since I live in the DC area (N. VA.) I am bummed out that The WWS folks cut out the DC Show. They usually held the show here in March each year - either in Chantilly or Fredericksburg, VA. I have attended the DC area shows for the past 8+ years - and every year I got a mailing from them promoting the event - both the Baltimore one as well as the DC one. This year, I received an email, which was in my Suspect email/Spam folder - no mailings at all. I heard that the 2012 show in Fred'burg was not that well attended. For that one, I think they "missed the boat" by not advertising in Richmond - since F'burg is half way between DC and Richmond. I really don't want The WWSs to fail/have to cease operations because they provide a conduit for companies like Legacy, Kreg, DeWalt, Apollo, etc. to get their products in front of potential owners at an event that concentrates companies and venders for those of us interested in woodworking. It seems to be a Win-Win proposition - we get a bunch of woodworking focused manufacturers wanting to demonstrate and sell their products and they get an audience that consists of folks wanting to learn about/buy what they have to sell. Let;s all hope that "IF" our US economy ever turns around, that the WWS is able to add MORE venues and venders and that more of us will attend and buy. In case someone says this is a chicken & egg situation - my reply is more like "The Field of Dreams" - "Build it and they will come". Over the years I have noticed that the numbers of booths/venders and demos has been getting fewer - although the number of seminars seem to have remained the same. Unfortunately, the one vender that seemed to have been getting bigger was a guy with a eclectic mix of "stuff" that seemed to me to belong in a flea market rather than the WWS. I know one vender that has a business that sells production machinery (table saws - SawStop & others, band saws, lathes, etc.) and he said that based on what it cost him to participate (registration, trucking his equip. to & fro, and paying employees involved in transport & manning the booth) compared to sales, he lost considerable money and is unlikely to participate again anytime soon unless the show makes changes. Can't say as I blame him. I don't know about others, but I feel the cost of "admission" ($10) is very low if you factor in that it grants you access for all 3 days and that you can attend so many VERY WORTHWHILE seminars. (And you could win one of the "Give-a -ways" they conduct at each show or The Big One at the end of the Show's year.) If The WWS raised the ticket price by a few dollars (like $10 for one day or $15 for all three), Expanded back out to the cities they used to go to, AND brought in a Show like they used to be (LOTS of venders & products) I would not complain. Thanks for sharing. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . 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