Linux-Advocacy Digest #861, Volume #27 Fri, 21 Jul 00 20:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Quickie Script for "Staircasing" Printers. (Bloody Viking)
Re: Some Windows weirdnesses... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Some Windows weirdnesses... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Web Browsers? (Bob B.)
Re: I had a reality check today :( ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Dresden's copyrights (Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Dresden's copyrights (Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary? (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:10:13 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 15:24:28 -0600, "John W. Stevens"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 17:30:08 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Particularly in a system which we want to be
> >> >modular, expandable, and multi-vendor.
> >>
> >> Yeah - PMT does best there. The only good scenario I can see for CMT
> >> is a closed-system where all variables and programs are already known
> >> ahead of time. Maybe.
> >
> >Naaah. Every modern processor I'm aware of has PMT built right into the
> >chip (prioritized interrupts), so a very, very simplified form of PMT
> >would probably be easier than all the profiling and code tuning
> >neccessary with CMT.
> >
> >Comments?
>
> Novell Netware. <ick!>
>
> Comments? :)
Sorry, no. I'm ignorant about Netware.
Please feel free to enlighten me.
> Really...familiar with it and it's CMT 'capabilities'?
Aaaggghhh!!
No. I wasn't aware that Netware had CMT. How "well" does it work?
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Subject: Re: Quickie Script for "Staircasing" Printers.
Date: 21 Jul 2000 23:22:18 GMT
Tim Palmer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: In Windo's, things just work. Why can't it be that way on Lixnu?
Almost. In Windows, things work or they don't. If they work, great. All's
well. If not, you don't have the option of trying to fix the problem with a
simple shell script. You are simply screwed.
This item you'll like. Often, a device works with only partial function on
Linux, like my printer. In this case, I had to code the script. OK, your
point is made.
But with Windows, you buy the device, and sure enough it works. Fine. Next
thing you know, you buy some new piece of software, a .DLL is swapped out, and
suddenly the device doesn't work at all. Now you get to search for the
swapped-out .DLL file that is "new, improved" but lacking some lame call the
previous software needed to use whatever device.
Consider Windows and modems and PPP connections. You have an Internet
connection with one ISP, and all's cool. One fine day, that ISP goes out, so
you suddenly pick up a deadly CD from the snailbox, install, and the Winsock
.DLL is replaced for that new ISP. Later you dump the new ISP and go back to
the old. Oops, it no longer works. Time to reinstall Windows! This type of
problem is exactly why when shopping for an ISP I want to be able to use a
terminal programme and login to a shell account on a UNIX box. Text-only is
way better than _NOTHING_. Who needs banner adverts anyways?
I would sooner code a script to cyber-jury-rig fix a device than have to deal
with it being rendered useless just by buying software. I'm not made out of
money.
--
DANGER: Charles Darwin is the lifeguard of the gene pool. Swim at own risk.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Some Windows weirdnesses...
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:21:58 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> "Ferdinand V. Mendoza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >He-he-he... At least Mandrake 7.1 can tolerate this with reiserfs -if
> >you can't afford a UPS.
>
> Having recently converted my /var filesystem to reiserfs (with the very
> latest and greatest reiserfs stuff directly from the developer site),
> I am not completely convinced this is ready for prime time yet.
> Granted, the filesystem I converted is an ugly case of lazyness causing
> weirdness (it has a directory with 180,000+ files in it ;-), but still ---
> I backed everything up, remade the filesystem, copied everything back,
> and while doing that, the "invalid inode" messages started coming in.
> Huh?
UNIX WEIRDNESS ALERT! UNIX WEIRDNESS ALERT!
If you were to
a) cd to that directory
b) ls -alb | head and note the number of blocks consumed by the
directory file "."
c) remove 90,000 files from that directory
d) ls -alb | head and note the number of blocks consumed by the
directory file "." again
You will see that . has NOT become smaller.
let's say the files are all in /some/path/to/huge_dir
[1]$ cd /some/path/to/huge_dir
[2]$ remove_lotsa_files
[3]$ mkdir ../huge_dir.new
[4]$ for F in a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
> do
> mv ${F}\* ../huge_dir.new #hope to prevent overflow of shell input buffer
> done
[5]$ ls -a # make sure directory is empty
[6]$ cd ..
[7]$ rmdir huge_dir # do NOT!!!!!! use rm -rf
[8]$ mv huge_dir.new huge_dir
>
> Well, it's mainly my news spool, and I made sure I had backup
> copies of everything (including everything coming in since the conversion),
> so I am sticking with it for the moment (and it *is* a great filesystem
> for directories with many files, no doubt about it).
> I also started getting "hdb: missed interrupt" messages that I didn't
> get before. Of course, it is possible that my disk is starting to go,
> and the beginning of that just coincided with me installing reiserfs --- but
> coinciding to the day?
>
> Also, my machine went down with a kernel panic a few times. I don't know
> why --- nothing got logged, and the register dump scrolled the panic
> message off the screen :-( That was with 2.4test3; I have since upgraded
> to 2.4test4 (which, from reading the patch, contains a whole lot of
> SMP locking fixes --- this is an SMP machine), and it appears rock stable.
>
> The unpleasant part about this was that INND mmap()s /var/lib/news/active,
> and that reiserfs seems to not update the on-disk copy regularly --- meaning
> that even though the crashes occured quite some time after the last
> changes to the active file, it ended up being out of date upon reboot.
> I had to write a small program to bring it up-to-date, to avoid new news
> overwriting older news.
>
> The lack of a reiserfsck means that I can't currently check whether the
> filesystem is about to eat itself, either.
>
> At the moment, I am still not convinced that reiserfs is anywhere near
> as usable and stable as ext2. I personally wouldn't use it for anything
> that I don't have comprehensive backups of.
>
> Bernie
> --
> Human blunders, however, usually do more to shape history
> than human wickedness
> A.J.P. Taylor
> British historian, 1906-90
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Some Windows weirdnesses...
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:24:30 -0400
Nathaniel Jay Lee wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > "Ferdinand V. Mendoza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > >He-he-he... At least Mandrake 7.1 can tolerate this with reiserfs -if
> > >you can't afford a UPS.
> >
> > Having recently converted my /var filesystem to reiserfs (with the very
> > latest and greatest reiserfs stuff directly from the developer site),
> > I am not completely convinced this is ready for prime time yet.
> > Granted, the filesystem I converted is an ugly case of lazyness causing
> > weirdness (it has a directory with 180,000+ files in it ;-), but still ---
> > I backed everything up, remade the filesystem, copied everything back,
> > and while doing that, the "invalid inode" messages started coming in.
> > Huh?
> >
> > Well, it's mainly my news spool, and I made sure I had backup
> > copies of everything (including everything coming in since the conversion),
> > so I am sticking with it for the moment (and it *is* a great filesystem
> > for directories with many files, no doubt about it).
> > I also started getting "hdb: missed interrupt" messages that I didn't
> > get before. Of course, it is possible that my disk is starting to go,
> > and the beginning of that just coincided with me installing reiserfs --- but
> > coinciding to the day?
> >
> > Also, my machine went down with a kernel panic a few times. I don't know
> > why --- nothing got logged, and the register dump scrolled the panic
> > message off the screen :-( That was with 2.4test3; I have since upgraded
> > to 2.4test4 (which, from reading the patch, contains a whole lot of
> > SMP locking fixes --- this is an SMP machine), and it appears rock stable.
> >
> > The unpleasant part about this was that INND mmap()s /var/lib/news/active,
> > and that reiserfs seems to not update the on-disk copy regularly --- meaning
> > that even though the crashes occured quite some time after the last
> > changes to the active file, it ended up being out of date upon reboot.
> > I had to write a small program to bring it up-to-date, to avoid new news
> > overwriting older news.
> >
> > The lack of a reiserfsck means that I can't currently check whether the
> > filesystem is about to eat itself, either.
> >
> > At the moment, I am still not convinced that reiserfs is anywhere near
> > as usable and stable as ext2. I personally wouldn't use it for anything
> > that I don't have comprehensive backups of.
> >
> > Bernie
> > --
> > Human blunders, however, usually do more to shape history
> > than human wickedness
> > A.J.P. Taylor
> > British historian, 1906-90
>
> I believe that if you "start out" with reiserfs you will have much
> better luck. The distros that include it (as far as I know only SuSE
> and Mandrake) include a known stable version of it and include utilities
> for checking and reparing the filesystem.
>
> I have been using the version of reiserfs included with SuSE 6.4 on
> production machines (servers and workstations) since the upgrade came
> out. I also have tried "manually" converting a couple of machines using
> the method you described and had some of the same problems you are
> describing (and I wasn't using a 2.3 or 2.4 test kernel, 2.2.14 I
> believe?). I think if you start the filesystem from installation with
> reiserfs (and I copied over home directories from old ext2 filesystems)
> I don't think you will see nearly the problems you have described.
>
> On my four Linux machines at home and my 24 systems at work I have
> Reiserfs working without difficulty. Perhaps you just had the same bit
> of bad luck I had when trying it the "manual" way.
>
Make a tape dump, or tar the filesystem onto another disk, and then
reformat the partition with reiserfs. This will give you a clean
filesystem AND give you the added bonus of doing the equivalent
of a defragment/pack operation.
Following this procedure will give you EXTREME peace of mind.
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Nathaniel Jay Lee
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Web Browsers?
From: Bob B. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 16:26:27 -0700
Kris Gonzalez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What about KFM (the KDE File Mgr)? It's very fast in
comparison to Netscrape's
>behemoth, and it is decently feature-rich for a browser so
young. Give it time
>and it's the next MSIE (which, flame me if you must, is without
doubt the best
>browser on the market)...
>
Yes, you are right that MSIE is MUCH better than anything
available on Linux. Netscape on Linux is even worse (ugly fonts,
skinny scroll bar, slow performance) than its Windows
counterpart.
Of the mozilla based browers, I think Galeon is the most
promising (compared to Netscape 6 or mozilla itself), but none
of these are really ready for prime time.
I suspect lack of a good browser is one of the biggest things
holding back Linux being accepted by the masses.
I believe there is a new browser associated with Gnome 2.0 - has
anyone got any comments about it ?
Bob B.
===========================================================
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:27:30 -0400
franks wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> ( deletia...)
>
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
> > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> ( more deletia...)
>
> Aaron,
>
> Why don't you give up your RIDICULOUS sig? Or at least,
> truncate it, or change it every other posting. It's even
> longer than your postings! Do you realize how foolish
> that makes you look? Get a life, sheesh!
Because certain hate-mongers from soc.singles like to follow me
around from newsgroup to newsgroup, with no other purpose than
writing disparaging remarks.
I found that postting a standard "innoculation" disclaimer in my
writings BEFORE they attack has put an end to thier garbage.
If I remove the .sig, I'm quite sure that these in-duh-viduals
will resume their flamefests.
>
> --
> Ed Franks | Contracted to :
> SysAdmin - Solaris/SunOS/Linux | CIO Office
> UNISYS Federal Systems | Air Force Research Lab
> Albuquerque, NM | Kirtland AFB
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:29:59 -0400
Drestin Black wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Actually, when I was one of those mere 20 people doing the O/S and
> > application support for ALL of GM, I can tell you that it wasn't
> > anywhere close to stressful.
> >
> > Boring is more like it.
> >
>
> So, Aaron, you claim that GM has(had) a grand total of 20 people doing the
> "O/S and application support for ALL of GM"?
That is the size of the entire UNIX Break/Fix team for all of GM,
supporint ALL flavors of Unix and ALL Unix apps.
>
> (and it so stressless it was boring?)
>
> 20 ... for all of GM?
>
> I think you win a prize for that whopper!
When you're used to needing 20 people to handle all of the problems
for a mere 400 Windows seats, yes, it must seem incredible.
> hahahaahahaha
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dresden's copyrights (Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:33:33 -0400
Drestin Black wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Drestin Black wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jacques Guy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > >because smarty, the copyright isn't under the name "Drestin" -
> > > sheesh...
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, "Drestin Black" == "Dressed in black". Now let me guess
> > > > > under what name those famous copyrights might be.... Brown?
> > > >
> > > > Nope....under "cross-dresser"
> > > >
> > >
> > > reduced to personal insults - your desperation has been showing for some
> > > time now... when you fail to have any facts to counter my arguments you
> > > resort to name calling?
> > >
> > > sticks and stones...
> >
> > OK...here is a chance to prove your skill as a programmer WITHOUT
> > threatening your precious anonymity:
> >
> >
> > Write us a simple "tee" program in C.
> >
> > the syntax for usage is:
> >
> > command_1 [args] [| ... [| command_n [args]]...] | tee _filename_ [|
> command_n+1 [args] ...]
> >
> > tee accepts input from standard input
> > and copies it to both standard output AND to a file named _filename_
> >
> > This should take all of ... oh... 15 minutes....even for me, and I haven't
> > written more than 3 trivial C programs in the last 5 years.
> >
> > Just so everybody knows, I'm sending a copy to Drestin, so that everyone
> > knows exactly when he gets a copy of this message.
> >
>
> #1) I replied privately.
No code.
I wonder why.
> #2) I have no idea how to write such a thing in C, I'm not a C programmer.
All true programmers know C.
> #3) I could perhaps write this in BASIC, probably. But... why? I've already
> written an endian flip function responding to Perry Pip and gave a lengthy
> bit of VBScript from an ASP page I was working on to another person.
> #4) I don't like your tone or your attitude so ... that's about it for this.
>
> A real programmer doesn't have to prove it to anyone...
If one is a real programmer, then "proving it" is a trivial exercise.
As I said, the above task is a mere 15-minute exercise. In fact,
it can be accomplished by a programming student who has not even
completed a course in C....it's not much more difficult than
"hello world".
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dresden's copyrights (Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:34:25 -0400
Drestin Black wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Drestin Black wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jacques Guy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > >because smarty, the copyright isn't under the name "Drestin" -
> > > sheesh...
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, "Drestin Black" == "Dressed in black". Now let me guess
> > > > > under what name those famous copyrights might be.... Brown?
> > > >
> > > > Nope....under "cross-dresser"
> > > >
> > >
> > > reduced to personal insults - your desperation has been showing for some
> > > time now... when you fail to have any facts to counter my arguments you
> > > resort to name calling?
> > >
> > > sticks and stones...
> >
> > OK...here is a chance to prove your skill as a programmer WITHOUT
> > threatening your precious anonymity:
> >
> >
> > Write us a simple "tee" program in C.
> >
> > the syntax for usage is:
> >
> > command_1 [args] [| ... [| command_n [args]]...] | tee _filename_ [|
> command_n+1 [args] ...]
> >
> > tee accepts input from standard input
> > and copies it to both standard output AND to a file named _filename_
> >
> > This should take all of ... oh... 15 minutes....even for me, and I haven't
> > written more than 3 trivial C programs in the last 5 years.
> >
> > Just so everybody knows, I'm sending a copy to Drestin, so that everyone
> > knows exactly when he gets a copy of this message.
> >
>
> #1) I replied privately.
> #2) I have no idea how to write such a thing in C, I'm not a C programmer.
> #3) I could perhaps write this in BASIC, probably. But... why? I've already
> written an endian flip function responding to Perry Pip and gave a lengthy
> bit of VBScript from an ASP page I was working on to another person.
> #4) I don't like your tone or your attitude so ... that's about it for this.
>
> A real programmer doesn't have to prove it to anyone...
POSER!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary?
Date: 21 Jul 2000 23:44:33 GMT
On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:18:56 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee wrote:
>me, there is a big difference between say, George Washington and Bill
>Clinton.
The difference is that modern leaders get their dirty laundry hung out
for the world to see. The other difference is a tendency to see the
world through rose coloured glasses.
>matter, but what matters is money.
So ... what's new ?
> If I can make enough money, then I
>can get the politicians to listen, not before.
Not really true. The politicians can't get in without votes, can they ?
They're always going after the "foo" vote.
>saddened. Why do we have to continue to put up with leaders that make
>the rest of the world see us as a laughing stock? I sure as hell don't
>know, do you?
Laughing stock ??? They can laugh at the US all they like, but the flock
of immigrants and wannabe immigrants to the US suggests at the very least
a grudging respect ( and even envy ) of the US. Those who are laughing do
so more out of jealousy than anything else.
BTW, before spouting some nonsense about the rest of the world "laughing"
at the US, take a look at the leaders overseas -- most people outside the
US have enough to laugh at in their own countries as it is. Contrary to
what some people may believe, the US isn't the center of the world, and
most people outside the US couldn't give a rat's ass about Bill's blow
jobs ( though many are perplexed about what the fuss is all about ).
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary?
Date: 21 Jul 2000 23:51:22 GMT
On 21 Jul 2000 22:28:20 GMT, Perry Pip wrote:
> And if
>you really think our Government is so corrupt, you should do some
>research into some other governments, especially in the Third
>World. You'll find the U.S. and other Western style democracies are
>way ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to government ethics.
I hate to be a "me too" poster, but you've hit the nail on the head here.
Even as far as "democracies" go, the US is pretty good. Try comparing it
to say Malaysia, Japan, Singapore, India, ...
In a lot of places, the so-called "scandals" in the US are not only
standard practice, they are perfectly legal.
The fact that we see so many "scandals" in countries like the US has a
lot to do with the fact that the leaders are held to considerably higher
standards than those elsewhere.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
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