Linux-Advocacy Digest #861, Volume #32 Sun, 18 Mar 01 01:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (Stuart Krivis)
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: GPL not being free doesn't mean that the license is invalid. ("JD")
Re: GPL not being free doesn't mean that the license is invalid. ("JD")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:36:54 -0500
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
> "Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:25:06 GMT, mmnnoo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >In article <RrPs6.1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Erik Funkenbusch"
> > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > ><snip>
> > >> Sure, they could examine the source themselves, but it doesn't sound
> > >> like they're making informed decisions based on actual evidence, so I
> > >> doubt they would disect Linux to prove to themselves that there aren't
> > >> back doors.
> > ><snip>
> > >
> > >And what actual evidence should they examine to conclude that
> > >closed-source software is secure?
> > >
> > >To suggest an answer my own question, if the Germans are serious
> > >about this, I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't offered to let them
> > >examine whatever source code they like.
> >
> > Let's see, Erik wants actual evidence. How about a backdoor placed
> > in Microsoft software that allowed users who entered "Netscape programmers
> > are weenies" to bypass security in Microsoft's web server software
> > and access pretty much anything they wanted.
>
> Evidence? You call this evidence? What you wrote is complete bullshit and
> does not exist in anything but your fantasy.
And yet, it is a DOCUMENTED FACT, you blithering idiot.
>
> > This, added to the fact
> > that Microsoft is doing everything they can to make it illegal to reverse
> > engineer their OS and look for security holes and back doors seems like
> > enough evidence for me.
>
> MS doesn't have to do anything to make it illegal, it was already that way
> before MS got involved. It's not MS's doing.
>
> >
> > There is plenty of ACTUAL evidence.
> >
> > How about this little item:
> >
> > ---------
> > MICROSOFT DENIES NSA HAS KEYS TO WINDOWS
> > The recent discovery of a software key in Microsoft Windows
> > labeled "NSA Key" has led to speculation that the software
> > company is covertly allowing the National Security Agency access
> > to encrypted data. Microsoft and the NSA both issued statements
> > denying the rumors on Sept. 3. Microsoft says the keys are
> > intended for use in installing new scrambling software and
> > helping users who have forgotten their passwords. However, the
> > "NSA Key" label concerns many experts who fear an alliance
> > between Microsoft and the secret intelligence agency.
> > Cryptographer Andrew Fernandes discovered the label several weeks
> > ago while examining the code in a new version of Microsoft
> > software that repairs Windows glitches. Ordinarily, the label
> > does not appear, and had been mistakenly included in the update.
> > Microsoft says the label only implies that the key is compliant
> > with the NSA's technical standards. (Washington Post 09/04/99)
>
> Your evidence is the proof that the NSA *doesnt* have a backdoor key to
> windows?
>
> You are a fucking idiot.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart Krivis)
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: 18 Mar 2001 00:36:55 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:08:02 GMT, chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>When you buy a Red Hat or SuSE or Mandrake or whatever distribution
>>you desire...you ***GET*** ***THOUSANDS**** ***OF*** ****APPS****
>>with the distribution.
>
>Read the thread you dumbass. My point was it there's thousands of
>Windows apps on the shelves, and NONE (essentially) for Linux. This
>is GOOD for Windows, and BAD for Linux, understand? No amount of
>squiming is going make make this a bonus of being a Linux user.
>
Half of those Windows apps are of the fix-em-up type to keep Windows
running. :-) Many are snake oil. (RAM Doubler anyone?)
I walk through the software section of the local CompUSA and see very
few things I'd really want.
Most things that you can get for Windows are now available for Linux in
one form or another. They may not be exactly the same, but that isn't
always a bad thing. (No Outlook/Exhange troubles, macro viruses, or VBS
worms.)
Now that Kylix has been released, we should see even more activity in
the Linux arena.
Then there is Win4lin (SCO Merge) if you want to run Windows apps. Or
you can use VMWare and run other OSs.
I'm running Mandrake 7.2 here with Kylix and Corel Office 2000
installed. Opera, Mulberry, PostgreSQL, Apache, Postfix, Jpilot... the
list goes on and on. KDE 2.1 is quite good and has been stable.
Even better is that the hardware is a hand-me-down. Win 2K was sluggish
on it, so I upgraded and put Linux on this.
--
Stuart Krivis
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:37:54 -0500
Jan Johanson wrote:
>
> "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Dave Martel wrote:
> >
> > > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/17679.html>
> > >
> > > German armed forces ban MS software, citing NSA snooping
> > > By: John Lettice
> > > Posted: 17/03/2001 at 18:59 GMT
> > >
> > > The German foreign office and Bundeswehr are pulling the
> > > plugs on Microsoft software, citing security concerns,
> > > according to the German news magazine Der Spiegel.
> > > Spiegel claims that German security authorities suspect that
> > > the US National Security Agency (NSA) has 'back door'
> > > access to Microsoft source code, and can therefore easily
> > > read the Federal Republic's deepest secrets.
> > >
> > > "The Bundeswehr will no longer use American software ... on
> > > computers used in sensitive areas..."
> >
> > This makes me quite proud of my German ancestry.
>
> You are proud of ignorant paranoia?
>
> Is there ANY proof of this "back door"? Nope.
Actually, SEVERAL back doors in Microsoft products have been
documented already, you dork.
>
> The real truth is that Germany is still pissed that MS included Diskeeper
> technology whos CEO is a scientologist.
That's the least of the problems....
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:43:39 -0500
Alan wrote:
>
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 04:03:33 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad
> Everett) wrote:
>
> >>Evidence? You call this evidence? What you wrote is complete bullshit and
> >>does not exist in anything but your fantasy.
> >>
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2550735,00.html
>
> MS calls it a pinhole. Some could claim you could fly a Boeing 747
> through it.
>
> ** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is
>distributed, without profit, for research and educational purposes only. ***
Not also that they denied it, even though the programming team
responsible for the program ADMITTED, that, yes, indeed, they
DID put in a backdoor.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:45:41 -0500
CR Lyttle wrote:
>
> Jan Johanson wrote:
> >
> > "J Sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Dave Martel wrote:
> > >
> > > > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/17679.html>
> > > >
> > > > German armed forces ban MS software, citing NSA snooping
> > > > By: John Lettice
> > > > Posted: 17/03/2001 at 18:59 GMT
> > > >
> > > > The German foreign office and Bundeswehr are pulling the
> > > > plugs on Microsoft software, citing security concerns,
> > > > according to the German news magazine Der Spiegel.
> > > > Spiegel claims that German security authorities suspect that
> > > > the US National Security Agency (NSA) has 'back door'
> > > > access to Microsoft source code, and can therefore easily
> > > > read the Federal Republic's deepest secrets.
> > > >
> > > > "The Bundeswehr will no longer use American software ... on
> > > > computers used in sensitive areas..."
> > >
> > > This makes me quite proud of my German ancestry.
> >
> > You are proud of ignorant paranoia?
> >
> > Is there ANY proof of this "back door"? Nope.
> >
> > The real truth is that Germany is still pissed that MS included Diskeeper
> > technology whos CEO is a scientologist.
> Already forgotten the "NSAKEY" backdoor? That was the "backup" key that
> MS put in the OS in case they (they being MS) "forgot" the primary key
> and needed to update your software.
...and WITHOUT your permission....of course.
> --
> Russ
> <http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
> Home of the Universal Automotive Test Set
> Linux Open Source (GPL) Project
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "JD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: GPL not being free doesn't mean that the license is invalid.
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:03:43 -0500
"Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> JD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >"Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Are you not free because you cannot consider someone else's property
> >> your own?
> >>
> >Further nonsense straw claims (not made by me, but sound like GPL
> >arguments) elided.
> >
> >I haven't been making the silly claims that compare my freedom with
> >software being free.
> >
> >Every author has the right to control the disposition of their work
> >(within the constraints of the law.) It doesn't make any sense that
> >when constraints beyond the minimum are imposed, to call software
> >'free.' It is quite silly, in fact to call something 'free', and then
> >impose restraints beyond the minimum.
>
> As people have told you in length in another thread, there is already a
> name for software that has no constraints beyond the minimum: public
> domain software.
>
That is self evident, but there is software that maintains ownership title,
yet allows free use and redistribution... That is called free software...
GPL isn't free software.
If we can agree that free software can allow the maintenance of title
to the software by the author, then we can agree. If you claim that restrictions
are necessary for software to be 'free software', then we'll never agree because
of a basic logical inconsistancy.
I claim that free software can allow 'ownership' by an individual who
allows free redistribution and usage. Some free software might allow
some MINIMAL restrictions on free redistribution and/or usage... The
test of free software is that if an average user can simply give a copy
or a partial copy to a friend (or other entity on a non-discriminatory basis)
without any checking for the limitations and still comply. An average user
cannot necessarily represent that an entire distribution has been unmodified,
is complete, the lineage or version, or many other factors. BSDL is very close
and probably meets that criteria for free. GPL doesn't meet that criteria.
The reason for the above definition is very logical and straightforward: Free
software can be freely redistributed (or used), in part or as a whole. This is
especially
critical for those who are not license savvy, and the issue of modified code
is sometimes a problem, because software distributions do get partially modified
upon installation, use or other situations. The issue of source code lineage
(either physical or virtual access) can become difficult under enough circumstances
to make GPL non-free based upon that fact alone.
One reason why I provide the 'share with a friend' notion as an example
of GPL's restrictiveness is because Stallman does, and it shows that he
is inconsistant in that goal of being able to share. Share with a friend isn't
a sufficient criteria, but is certainly necessary.
The notion or claim that the GPL is free has been clearly refuted in other threads
(with some help by you), and the goal has been met.
Kindly suggestion: Please don't insult me by talking about public domain
software... You have been disagreeable, but only slightly dishonest in some
of your claims, and reducing an argument to the absurd only increases your
apparent dishonesty. Disagreeable is acceptable, but dishonest or misleading
is a bad thing. That problem seems to be common in the GPL-being-free
circles, but you don't have to lower yourself to it.
I am having fun this weekend, only spending a few minutes on this stuff, but
I'll be back soon!!! :-).
John
------------------------------
From: "JD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Subject: Re: GPL not being free doesn't mean that the license is invalid.
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:09:13 -0500
"Tim Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JD wrote:
> >
> > "Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > JD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >Actually, it is based upon the lie that it is free. When it was understood
> > > >that is the basis of misunderstanding by me A LONG TIME AGO, and that
> > > >I didn't really care about the GPL itself, the matter became clear.
> > >
> > > [snipped more GPL is free == a lie]
> > >
> > > Are you not free because you cannot consider someone else's property
> > > your own?
> > >
> > Further nonsense straw claims (not made by me, but sound like GPL arguments)
> > elided.
> >
> > I haven't been making the silly claims that compare my freedom with software
> > being free.
> >
> > Every author has the right to control the disposition of their work (within the
> > constraints of the law.) It doesn't make any sense that when constraints
> > beyond the minimum are imposed, to call software 'free.' It is quite silly,
> > in fact to call something 'free', and then impose restraints beyond the minimum.
> >
> > GPL constraints are NOT minimal. Claims that GPLed code is free are false, but
> > that doesn't mean that the authors shouldn't be able to license their code with
> > whatever free or non-free license that they choose. It is especially deceptive to
> > recognize that there is software that is MUCH freer than GPLed code, yet the
> > nonsense and misleading claims are made specifically by the GPL-being-free
> > crowd.
>
> As you've said in at least a hundred messages in this and other threads.
> Is it possible to just move on, or is this your whole reason for being?
> Perhaps you want to run for President on this issue, no?
>
Unforutnately, there have been numerous attempts to 'beat me down.' I don't
know the best response to nonsense claims, especially when a new person
comes in and re-asserts disproven statements.
This thing will die down, but until it does, if this irritates you I STRONGLY suggest
putting me and/or these threads into a filter. I have already filtered a few people,
and it can be quite useful.
The best solution to the problem is for the misrepresentations about the GPL to
cease, and the docs online to be corrected.
Your claim about the GPL being around or not has merit, but doesn't really have
ANYTHING to do with these discussions... The mistake that YOU have made is you
again make the assumption that I am anti-GPL... The fact is that I am ANTI-LIE.
If you criticize, please criticize me based upon my position, but don't criticize me
for a position that I don't take :-).
John
------------------------------
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