Them Egyptians had no tools to build pyramids either.
Etruscans had no tools to build the city wall of Amelia.
However we have those walls, and some early music playable only in ET.
RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "wikla" <wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
To: "Lutelist" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New lute music
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:52:10 -0400, "Roman Turovsky"
<r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Even after JSB there never was any ET for many, many years! For example
Chopin never met ET. ET is an invention of 20th century.
ET was invented long before, and was advocated by Galilei, Frescobaldi,
Werckmeister, and many others.
In the time of of Galilei, Frescobaldi, Werckmeister, and "many others",
there was the want and eager to find a way to equalise the intervals. But
there was no way, no tool. Even Chopin did not have that tool. They wanted
it, but had they known, what becomes, they wouldn't have... ;-)
In my opinion ET lends ANY music noble and unaffected delivery.
Just listen to, let us say, Antonio Cabezon, or any other keyboard guy
of
16th c. in ET and "good temperament", and tell your feelings.. (You said
"ANY music")
Take some old recording of August Wenzinger for example, and compare it
to a
contemporary one.
Take _any_ Cabezon piece and try it by "piano"...
And there is no necessity of liking dodecaphony if you like ET.
I do agree. But is there really any other reason of liking ET than the
want
to feel equally every possible interval, chord. key or any sequence of
notes, starting where ever? Do you really want to hear - let us say -
F-major sound like E-major?
Why not? Fingerboard topography gives enough color, so why mistune?
???
The F-major - to me - is very soft, happy and royal, and btw. also green
to
me; the E-major is much more sharp and angry, and btw. to me its colour
is
blue. And what is most intersting to me, is that in the so called
"baroque"
tuning (a'=415Hz) and in the modern tuning (a'=440Hz) those
characteristics
follow the name of the key? Or better said, players tune their
instruments
so...
Arto, we now know that picth is a chymera, the Venetian one being 465, so
there is no such thing as definitive "baroque pitch".
Yep! There really is no definitive "baroque pitch" - as I thought everyone
knew. I wanted to say that in all the pitches of a' (where I am taken
into...) the colours are to me the same: F-major green etc.
And of course - as always- it is possible to fool me... ;)
Arto
Is it so?
And an entertaining poll: What is the colour of your F-major and
E-major?
Those two are clearest to me: to me there are no other alternatives to
these two. D-major perhaps could be yellow? A-minor grey possible?
C-major
white? Well, that's enough...
There are many organic compounds that give chords their colors, but I am
too
old for those....
RT
I am
certainly no fan of the former, and it can be done in any temperament
anyway. Current forms of neomodernism are not pitch-dependent, and
often
avoid all definite pitch (as well as meter).
As to actual temperaments- none are absolute, and even fewer are
sufficiently stable to discuss.
Another point -
There is a belief that intonational espression is largely a product of
ET,
because the latter permit minute deviations therefrom which actually
produce
expression.
Minute deviations from MT are plain old ugly, and the natural
consequence
of
this is the so-called Rooley Principle, according to which any
expression
is
entirely inappropriate in Early Music in general.
RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "wikla" <wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
To: "Lute list" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: New lute music
Dear Roman and other dears,
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:23:21 -0400, "Roman Turovsky" wrote:
[...]
I am for one is absolutely happy to use ET, and I use it exclusively.
Poor you... ;-) I guess you'll never get your ET absolute. Neither
does
anyone else. We non ET's in our side neither are able to achieve the
optimum. But to us it is simplier: we know we cannot reach the "truth"
to
every key - we just optimise the sound. To us non ET's there is no
need
to
make Eb sound like D#; But if just only that is what is needed, we can
do
that easily while spoiling something else instead. I guess you know
the
system, Roman? While you favorite one key, you spoil another. If you
prefer
- let us say Schönberg's 12 tone music to - let us say JS Bach in his
tonalities - you should prefer also ET. If tonality is a message to
you,
I
would recommend non-ET to you.
Best,
Arto
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