Dear Mark,
where did you get Eric Bellocq's promotion text from? It sounds indeed
a little silly - but given how much work he semed to have invested in
research on Bach suites, and finally playing them in ABs (?) tuning,
one should do him justice before ridiculing him and make sure what's
the matter with this text... not everything is what it seems to be...
F
__________________________________________________________________
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu im Auftrag von Mark Wheeler
Gesendet: So 20.12.2009 16:27
An: 'Sauvage Valery'; lute
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
Well if you find playing "a guitar in form of a lute saying it is a
lute"
strange then have a look at this promotion text from the same
lutenist..
"It is assumed that Bach, just as for the violin and the cello,
composed six
solo suites for lute. But only a few of these incredibly difficult lute
compositions have been preserved. Eric Bellocq accepted the challenge
and
reconstructed a complete suite cycle. For this purpose, he had a `luito
forte' built, which all of a sudden makes these compositions quite
playable!"
Who assumes that there are 6 solo suites for lute, where is the
evidence?
All of the surviving Bach compositions or arrangements have been
recorded
many times, so they are playable on a standard baroque lute.
Eric's text is of course absolute hogwash, but it is the sort of thing
that
some classical promoters probably lap up, not surprising considering
that
huge portions of the mega-narrative of classical music dreamed up in
the
19th century is equally ridiculous. But wasn't one of the aims of the
early
music movement to try to get beyond these assumptions and myths.
Mark
-----Urspruengliche Nachricht-----
Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im
Auftrag
von Sauvage Valery
Gesendet: Sonntag, 20. Dezember 2009 15:58
An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
I'm not against guitar and guitar players (as a guitar player myself,
on
romantic intrument ;-) but I don't understand why play a guitar in form
of a
lute saying it is a lute, as I find my normal lute "forte" enough in
itself,
that's all. And after, eveyone makes whatever he wants...
V.
----- Original Message -----
From: <terli...@aol.com>
To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: terli...@aol.com
> To: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> Sent: Sun, Dec 20, 2009 9:22 am
> Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>
>
>
>
> I write at the risk of being gummed to death by a horde of irate
> lutenists:
>
>
> I don't know what kind of guitars and guitar playing lutenists here
have
> been exposed to here but there is a wide variety of types of guitars
and
> playing styles. Hauser style guitar guitars are very good for playing
some
> lute music. Smallman type guitars are less good for playing most lute
> music. To play lute music decently on guitar takes a certain
touch...there
> are players that can do it.
> The guitar (unamplified) works great great in ensemble playing e.g
Boulez:
> Le marteau sans maA(R)tre: Webern op.18,
> Takemitsu: Ring for Lute,flute and guitar...
> Best,
> Mark Delpriora
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chriswi...@yahoo.com
> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Sauvage ValA(c)ry <sauvag...@orange.fr>
> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 6:18 pm
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>
>
> Valery,
>
> --- On Sat, 12/19/09, Sauvage ValA(c)ry <sauvag...@orange.fr> wrote:
>> Ok forte,
>> we can hear it, but sounds like a guitar (single strung for
>> the one he used).
>> So why not play the guitar ? modern and loud instrument you
>> can play with nails...
>
> Really? I've found the modern classical guitar to be a really,
really
> awful
> ensemble instrument when dealing with anything else other than other
> classical
> guitars or one other instrument/voice. While the signal coming from
it
> may be
> technically louder than most types of lutes, it is designed to
emphasize
> the
> lower partials so that the sound is literally swallowed up by other
modern
> instruments. This sort of dark timbre can be very effective for a
certain
> portion (but not all) of the solo repertoire, but it really loses its
> charm in
> other situations. This is why A) it MUST be played with nails B)
even
> then it
> doesn't project particularly well and C) you often hear the
instrument
> amplified
> in even small ensembles.
>
> If you're going to amplify it, what's the point of using that type of
> guitar
> (unless you want to make the amplification part of the effect and
timbre
> itself,
> a la George Crumb)? This is why I haven't used a classical guitar in
any
> of my
> ensemble music for years. A steel-string guitar works very well
> unamplified in
> a small ensemble and the electric guitar has no volume limitations at
all.
> Contemporary composers would find much of interest in these
instruments
> and
> modern classical guitarists would be well advised to think of them as
> alternate
> versions of their instrument. Unfortunately, classical players often
> perceive
> them as some kind of threat from outside the "official" guitar world.
>
> I haven't found this same problem with lutes or theorbos. The
emphasis of
> higher partials means that the sound on both can cut through quite
well.
> Play
> close to the bridge and you can be heard most of the time. I've been
> thinking
> of writing a duo for lute and modern guitar. Maybe now's the time to
> investigate the project.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "wolfgang wiehe"
<wie-w...@gmx.de>
>> To: <terli...@aol.com>;
>> <r.turov...@verizon.net>;
>> <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 8:05 PM
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>>
>>
>>
>> I heard a "liuto forte" this year at our DLG meeting on
>> "Burg
>> Sternberg". Hmm, not louder than my g-lute...;-)
>> Greetings
>> W.
>>
>> -----UrsprA 1/4ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> [[2]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
>> Im
>> Auftrag von terli...@aol.com
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Dezember 2009 19:41
>> An: r.turov...@verizon.net;
>> lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>>
>>
>> OR suitable for a guitarist who is NOT sick of the guitar
>> repertoire!
>> . and is happy with finger nails.
>>
>>
>> Roman, Did you go to the the demonstration of the liuto
>> forte hat
>> occurred at the Met Museum a year or 3 ago?
>>
>>
>> I missed it.
>>
>>
>> Mark Delpriora
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Roman Turovsky <r.turov...@verizon.net>
>> To: Lutelist <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Sent: Sat, Dec 19, 2009 11:51 am
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>>
>>
>> It is a single-strung lute and guitar hybrid designed by
>> Andre Burguete,
>> that aproximates lute sound while purporting to have the
>> volume of the
>> guitar. It uses nylon overspun with fine steel wire, and
>> has some
>> interesting and useful peculiarities in the bridge and
>> soundboard
>> construction.
>> Fixed metal frets are supposedly less dampening to the
>> sound
>> (negligibly).
>> This technology might yield a nice and loud theorbo in ET.
>> But one really misses the overtone palette of double
>> strings.
>> It is a very suitable instrument for a guitarist who is
>> sick of the
>> guitar repertoire, but is unwilling to part with his
>> nails.
>>
>> [3]http://www.liuto-forte.com/
>> There are a number of notable converts to it: Oliver
>> Holzenburg, Luciano
>> Contini et al.
>> RT
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Winheld"
>> <dwinh...@comcast.net>
>> To: <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 11:31 AM
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Liuto forte
>>
>> > Alright, I'll bite- What in God's name is Liuto
>> Forte? (I must have
>> > been out of the office for this one)
>> > thanks, Dan
>> > -- >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > To get on or off this list see list information at
>> > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
--
References
1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. http://www.liuto-forte.com/
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
