Bill
That's a good question and we should all get a chance to listen to the
experiment. I did and from my experience a unison-strung 6c is pretty
clunky to play. When you have two ropey gut 6th course basses side by
side you run into intonation (and buzzing) problems and it's pretty
difficult to get a good tone playing both w/ a thumb. It also gets
difficult to finger on the left hand. To my ear it becomes muddy.
As I understand it, playing with octaves you should play the
fundamental and brush the octave (simultaineously) as a habit so the
ear hears the bass note correctly and still unconsciously digests the
overtones keeping the sound bright and light.
This is only my interpretation of it over the years.
Sean
On Nov 20, 2011, at 10:53 AM, William Samson wrote:
Certainly, Ed. But how many vihuelas do we see nowadays in these
configurations? In fact I wonder if there's a single one that isn't
set up with unisons throughout and a double first? We're very
conservative (with a small 'c') when it comes to pushing the
envelope.
I wonder if there was any recognised difference between how lutes and
vihuelas were strung in a given place at the time. Nowadays, though,
we're very blinkered about it all and conform to templates which
are in
some ways questionable.
I'd love to hear Milan, say, played on an octave strung vihuela, or
Milano on a unison strung 6c lute.
Bill
From: Edward Martin <e...@gamutstrings.com>
To: William Samson <willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>; "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu"
<lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 18:31
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes?
Thanks for the reference, Bill. There have been new discoveries
since the time the article was written, where we now cannot claim
that vihuelas were string in unison. Some were, others were
not. They may have had the double first course, but there is
evidence to the contrary that some vihuelas were string in octaves on
4,5, and 6th courses.
ed
At 12:02 PM 11/20/2011, William Samson wrote:
I've found the reference - Segerman and Abbott, FoMRHI Comm number
30,
July 1976
[1][1]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf
They say (p37) "Instruments which come to mind that had double
first
courses and unison basses were
1. Vihuela
2. Robinson (1603) and Dowland (1610) lute.
3. At least some late 16th century Italian lutes. . . . ."
They give references on which they base these statements.
Interesting stuff. What I find odd is that we've been channelled
into
a mindset where just about all 6c lutes built nowadays have single
first courses and octaves on 6, 5 and 4. Lutes with 7 or more
courses
have unisons on 5, 4, 3, 2 and a single first, and octaves from 6
downwards. 11 and 13 c lutes have single 1st and second courses
but
12c lutes have double second courses. All very formulaic and I'm
as
guilty as anyone of following these 'rules'. But there's plenty
of
evidence of more varied configurations in use at the time, and it
would
be surprising if there wasn't. It's a pity that these differences
don't show up in modern practice, though I fully understand why -
resale value for example, and maybe an assumption that as these
seem to
have ended up as the most successful configurations at the time,
there's no need to explore anything else.
Bill
PS Oh yes - and octave stringing works out cheaper too :o)
From: Daniel Winheld <[2]dwinh...@comcast.net>
To: William Samson <[3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: "[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 17:05
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes?
" I seem to remember that lutes with a double chanterelle were
usually strung in unisons."
Mimmo Peruffo disputes that assumption: from his website page
"The
lute in its historical reality"-
9. Double treble and unison courses: the fact that the vihuela was
generally (but not always) strung with a double treble led some
scholars to take that as evidence in favour of all courses having
been
strung with unisons. We fail to grasp the logic of it. There is,
on the
other hand, evidence proving that the vihuela could have a single
treble, whereas most Renaissance lutes where strung with double
trebles.
[2][6]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm
On Nov 19, 2011, at 11:42 PM, William Samson wrote:
Again - I've forgotten the source (probably Eph Segerman), but
I
seem
to remember that lutes with a double chanterelle were usually
strung
in
unisons. I do know that Eph had a 7c lute made like this and
strung
with catlines (his own manufacture - Northern Renaissance
Instruments)
in the basses. It certainly worked very well, but sounded
'darker'
than a lute with octave stringing in the basses.
Bill
From: wikla <[3][7]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
To: [4][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 20:51
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes?
Thanks to all for the most interesting answers!
I actually just ordered a 6 courser, model Venere (the
original, the
model,
was a 7 courser, I suppose?) from Lauri Niskanen, the guy who
made
my
new
11 courser. And I ordered an option to double chanterelle -
just one
extra
peg, just 3 grooves and 3 holes up and down.
Any more constructive ideas what to hope and ask?
best,
Arto
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1][5][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1.
[6][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
--
References
1. [11]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf
2. [12]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm
3. mailto:[13]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
4. mailto:[14]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
6. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota 55812
e-mail: [17]e...@gamutstrings.com
voice: (218) 728-1202
[18]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
[19]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
[20]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
--
References
1. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf
2. mailto:dwinh...@comcast.net
3. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm
7. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
11. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf
12. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm
13. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
14. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
18. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
19. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
20. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
