Thanks, Bill. I have my vihuelas set up in gut, with octaves on 4, 5, and 6. It sounds charming, and yes, I do play Milan on it!
ed At 12:53 PM 11/20/2011, William Samson wrote: > Certainly, Ed. But how many vihuelas do we see nowadays in these > configurations? In fact I wonder if there's a single one that isn't > set up with unisons throughout and a double first? We're very > conservative (with a small 'c') when it comes to pushing the envelope. > I wonder if there was any recognised difference between how lutes and > vihuelas were strung in a given place at the time. Nowadays, though, > we're very blinkered about it all and conform to templates which are in > some ways questionable. > I'd love to hear Milan, say, played on an octave strung vihuela, or > Milano on a unison strung 6c lute. > Bill > From: Edward Martin <e...@gamutstrings.com> > To: William Samson <willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>; "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" > <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 18:31 > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes? > Thanks for the reference, Bill. There have been new discoveries > since the time the article was written, where we now cannot claim > that vihuelas were string in unison. Some were, others were > not. They may have had the double first course, but there is > evidence to the contrary that some vihuelas were string in octaves on > 4,5, and 6th courses. > ed > At 12:02 PM 11/20/2011, William Samson wrote: > > I've found the reference - Segerman and Abbott, FoMRHI Comm number > 30, > > July 1976 > > [1][1]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > > > > They say (p37) "Instruments which come to mind that had double > first > > courses and unison basses were > > 1. Vihuela > > 2. Robinson (1603) and Dowland (1610) lute. > > 3. At least some late 16th century Italian lutes. . . . ." > > > > They give references on which they base these statements. > > > > Interesting stuff. What I find odd is that we've been channelled > into > > a mindset where just about all 6c lutes built nowadays have single > > first courses and octaves on 6, 5 and 4. Lutes with 7 or more > courses > > have unisons on 5, 4, 3, 2 and a single first, and octaves from 6 > > downwards. 11 and 13 c lutes have single 1st and second courses > but > > 12c lutes have double second courses. All very formulaic and I'm > as > > guilty as anyone of following these 'rules'. But there's plenty > of > > evidence of more varied configurations in use at the time, and it > would > > be surprising if there wasn't. It's a pity that these differences > > don't show up in modern practice, though I fully understand why - > > resale value for example, and maybe an assumption that as these > seem to > > have ended up as the most successful configurations at the time, > > there's no need to explore anything else. > > > > Bill > > > > PS Oh yes - and octave stringing works out cheaper too :o) > > From: Daniel Winheld <[2]dwinh...@comcast.net> > > To: William Samson <[3]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> > > Cc: "[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2011, 17:05 > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes? > > >> " I seem to remember that lutes with a double chanterelle were > > usually strung in unisons." > > Mimmo Peruffo disputes that assumption: from his website page > "The > > lute in its historical reality"- > > 9. Double treble and unison courses: the fact that the vihuela was > > generally (but not always) strung with a double treble led some > > scholars to take that as evidence in favour of all courses having > been > > strung with unisons. We fail to grasp the logic of it. There is, > on the > > other hand, evidence proving that the vihuela could have a single > > treble, whereas most Renaissance lutes where strung with double > > trebles. > > [2][6]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > > On Nov 19, 2011, at 11:42 PM, William Samson wrote: > > > Again - I've forgotten the source (probably Eph Segerman), but > I > > seem > > > to remember that lutes with a double chanterelle were usually > strung > > in > > > unisons. I do know that Eph had a 7c lute made like this and > strung > > > with catlines (his own manufacture - Northern Renaissance > > Instruments) > > > in the basses. It certainly worked very well, but sounded > 'darker' > > > than a lute with octave stringing in the basses. > > > Bill > > > From: wikla <[3][7]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi> > > > To: [4][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > > Sent: Saturday, 19 November 2011, 20:51 > > > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double 1st string on 6 course lutes? > > > Thanks to all for the most interesting answers! > > > I actually just ordered a 6 courser, model Venere (the > original, the > > > model, > > > was a 7 courser, I suppose?) from Lauri Niskanen, the guy who > made > > my > > > new > > > 11 courser. And I ordered an option to double chanterelle - > just one > > > extra > > > peg, just 3 grooves and 3 holes up and down. > > > Any more constructive ideas what to hope and ask? > > > best, > > > Arto > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > > [1][5][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > > > > References > > > > > > 1. > [6][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > >References > > > > 1. [11]http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > > 2. [12]http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > > 3. mailto:[13]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi > > 4. mailto:[14]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > > 5. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > 6. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: [17]e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > [18]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > [19]http://www.myspace.com/edslute > [20]http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin > > -- > >References > > 1. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > 2. mailto:dwinh...@comcast.net > 3. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk > 4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 6. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > 7. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi > 8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 11. http://www.fomrhi.org/uploads/bulletins/Fomrhi-004.pdf > 12. http://www.mimmoperuffo.org/9e.htm > 13. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi > 14. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 17. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com > 18. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > 19. http://www.myspace.com/edslute > 20. http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
