On 02/10/14, 14:59 , stefano franchi wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Rainer M Krug <rai...@krugs.de > <mailto:rai...@krugs.de>> wrote: > > > > On 02/09/14, 19:44 , Georg Baum wrote: > > Rainer M Krug wrote: > > > >> The idea would be that a round-trip framework is envisaged, which > >> provides the facilities to easily expand it from one export backend > >> (docx) to another (possibly odt? markdown?). > >> > >> IMPORTANT: this would NOT change ANYTHING in the existing export / > >> import features, as these are geared to export / import the > documents as > >> good as possible, with maintaining as many features as possible > in the > >> document. > >> > >> The round-trip would guarantee that: > >> > >> A document authored in LyX would result in a e.g. docx with a LIMITED > >> set of features, but that a re-import would result in the SAME .lyx > >> file. features and formats not supported by the backend should be > stored > >> in a metadata file. > >> > >> The important point here is *limited set of features*! > >> > >> In addition, the framework should be easily, possibly only by using > >> config files, able to be extended to other formats. > > > > I don't understand the difference between round trip and the existing > > export/import here. Why is it important? If the additional metadata is > > stored in a different file, it could simply be generated for the > standard > > export, and be used by the standard import (if it exists). > > > > The goal of the export/import is to support as many features as > possible. > > This is needed for round trip as well. The only difference I see > is the > > additional metadata file, so the roundtrip framework vs. export/import > > difference reduces to a switch whether the metadata file should be > generated > > (for export) or used (for import). Or did I understand anything wrong? > > The difference is that for round-trip, i.e. working together with > co-authors and getting comments back, a different set of features are > relevant. These are mainly concerned about content and not that much > formating. The import - export is concerned with both. In addition, a > round trip has to be symmetric, i.e. that exported features have to be > available in the re-importd as well - this is not the case in the export > and import. Lastly, round-trip is for editing, and export - import is > for editing and final consumption (reading). > > > > I actually disagree on this point: the most useful doc-export facility > for LyX would be equally focused on semantic content and not on > formatting.
Only partial disagreement - In the case you describe below, the export to semantic, which is equal to the round-trip export, would be the end product. So let's call it a "semantic exporter" versus a "complete exporter" (as the one used export to for LaTeX). > In other words, it would be just half (or slightly less than > half) of the round-trip project. The rationale is simple: exporting to > doc(x) makes sense and is actually required when working with a third > party (typically, for Lyx's main audience, with a publisher) who will > then either provide final formatting directly with Word (the worst case) > or will use the doc(x) file as import into a real typesetting program > (InDesign, etc). In neither case formatting instructions are relevant. I > think it is a losing proposition to aim for the preservation of format > when exporting to Word---and in fact it is the reason why, in my > experience, *all* latex-to- word- (or to-odt) or lyx-to-word exporters > actually fail in practice. It is impossibly hard to provide the same pdf > look that (la)tex produces with Word. And the use cases in which this > conversion is required are exceedingly rare. Far more pressing for our > user base is the need to guarantee a hassle-free 100% valid export to a > "sanitized word format" which is narrowly restricted, on both sides, to > the semantic information contained in LyX. > > To put it more bluntly (and to repeat what I and others have stated many > times in the past): LyX is barely usable right now for any academic > work in the Humanities, due to the necessity to deliver doc documents to > virtually any publisher. If you are a student, you are similarly asked > by professor to submit drafts in Word format. > > </rant>I had to convert a ~50,000 words book from LyX to Word last month > and it took me 2 full days. I think I tried all exporters known to men > (and women). They all failed to various degrees. In the end, I had > better luck converting the file from the pdf (!!!!!) output to word and > then reinserting manually all footnotes (all 450 of them). I am facing > the prospect of converting a 200,000 words manuscript in a few months > and I am already sweating at night at the very idea. <\rant> > > Anyway: I am willing to "mentor" a student through the process of > producing a LyX-to-Word semantic-only exporter. Scare quotes are > necessary, because I would have to learn as much as the student. If Rob > can provide some guidance and expert advice (both as a previous mentor > and obviously as an expert in the area) I think we may have something > working by the end of the summer. What I know is that *I* will > absolutely a solid word-exporter by that time. That would be brilliant, and about half of the round-trip story. The meta-data could be build around the semantic exporter afterwards, if the features which are exported are documented properly, and the sematic importer could also be build later. Cheers, Rainer > > > Cheers, > > Stefano > > > -- > __________________________________________________ > Stefano Franchi > Associate Research Professor > Department of Hispanic Studies Ph: +1 (979) 845-2125 > Texas A&M University Fax: +1 (979) 845-6421 > College Station, Texas, USA > > stef...@tamu.edu <mailto:stef...@tamu.edu> > http://stefano.cleinias.org -- Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany) Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology Stellenbosch University South Africa Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44 Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98 Fax : +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44 Fax (D): +49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44 email: rai...@krugs.de Skype: RMkrug
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