Hello. Please do not take what I'm about to say wrongly (I know I do not moderate the list) but past experiences on many lists have shown me that people can get very upset about these kind of issues (espically when we talk about getting technology and how it should be acquired). It would be very wrong of me to ask this be taken off list but if this is to be discussed, let's all keep a cool mind and a sense of proportion otherwise these discussions can get very heated and words said which are not meant. Scott, I am not criticising you for asking these questions either, but we've discussed these things so many times.
Kind regards. Kawal. On 30 Apr 2012, at 10:17 AM, Scott Howell <scottn3...@gmail.com> wrote: > At the risk of upsetting you Jenny, let me pose this question. If you do not > work for whatever reason, why do you need adaptive technology? In fact if you > cannot pay for your technology I get the impression that you feel the > "GOvernment" (state or Federal) should provide such. So, are you saying that > you are entitled to such technology? If so why? Do you know why your food > stamp benefits were cut as a result of marriage?? Does this fit into the > topic of the Apple products and in which way? Finally and most important do > you believe that because APple has essentially lowered the bar for entry into > the adaptive technology world, do you think it makes it possible for those > with limited income to purchase technology they want or may help them be more > productive? > > On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:51 PM, Jenny Keller wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm sorry for the misconceptions and inaccurate information about things for >> the blind in the UK. >> >> I know that I have heard, though, that in Australia, they give you the >> choice of computers with accessible software, but I could be wrong about >> that too. >> >> Here, you have to be in school or have a job to get accessible anything. >> the thing about that is, there are some people like me, that can't work due >> to other health problems, and frankly, I'm treated as though I don't need >> adaptive anything because I don't work. >> >> That's a crock of bull, because every blind person needs adaptive equipment. >> >> >> The Americans with Disabilities Act only works well for certain groups of >> disabled people here. >> >> It's sad, but it's good to know that America isn't the only one screwing >> over the blind or visually impaired. >> >> Oh by the way, the amount of money they give you to live on only provides >> enough for subsidized housing, which usually isn't in a safe neighborhoods >> and have questionable people either living in them, or around them dealing >> drugs, or prostituting themselves because what they make isn't enough either. >> >> If you spit out kids like bum balls with multiple fathers who don't pay >> child support and aren't married, you get more assistance than if you are a >> married disabled couple. >> >> When my husband and I got married, we are both blind, our food stamps got >> drastically cut. If we had just lived together, we would get more. >> However, it is against my religious beliefs to live together without the >> benefit of marriage. >> >> So much for doing the right thing. >> >> Jenny >> On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:03 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >> >>> Hi Jenny, I'm glad I've been listening to this thread. >>> >>> From my experience on this, Here in the UK, though there is audio >>> description to TV shows via new digital TV's, there still isn't a spoken >>> user interface to allow access to various menus, same on DVD players, >>> recorders, etc. I've not yet come across a single audio described DVD in my >>> time. >>> >>> Support for blind and visually impaired people in most parts of the UK is >>> absolutely shocking. as an example, in education, I'm here in Wales (a >>> lottery win would see me leaving here as soon as possible), throughout my >>> education life, both visually impaired and blind, I've been let down and >>> lied to, given useless equipment which constantly failed, the wrong >>> software, extremely poor braille training, etc. the only good thing that >>> came from it was mobility training through RNIB instead of social services >>> rehab department. >>> >>> There was a point where mobility aids were free but now they're not, so I >>> have to pay about £300 per year on canes and tips due to high usage and >>> certain occasions where thugs in our area attack me destroying the cane for >>> "fun", so replacement canes are kept by. >>> >>> If you apply for funding, it's virtually non existent, not only that but >>> the rulings given have no sense nor structure. so if you need adaptive >>> equipment, not a chance, it's sell what you own or get into debt, that's my >>> experience on that matter. >>> >>> Why is it when you walk into a store and ask for help, you get a useless >>> person who hasn't a clue of how to assist you? I get this all the time... I >>> may as well appear as a muppet on the Muppet Show.. You ask to be guided >>> and they go without you, they say " it's over there", don't describe the >>> items, etc. So what's the bloomin use of them in the first place. >>> >>> Then of course the ultimate insult. to be blind and wanting to work for >>> companies here is a joke. Though I'm highly qualified and have all the >>> right requirements, because of being blind, there are 3 main areas that >>> stop me from working for a firm. 1: disability discrimination by the >>> interviewer or company, 2: Health and Safety regulations acts, 3: employer >>> insurance costs. >>> >>> I've been in the IT game for myself for a while and don't mind it, but my >>> main skills are as a cabinet maker, having been trained by my grandfather >>> who was a master cabinet maker / carpenter. so I took on his work after his >>> retirement, so I'm the last in the line of the family in the trades and am >>> keeping that alive. I'm fine working for myself, but if I were to work for >>> a joinery company, they couldn't take me on for the amount of HSE red tape >>> nonsense. This stops us experienced folk from doing our jobs and putting us >>> out of work and I'm sick of it. >>> >>> I do some work with a company as a product demonstrator / endorser of their >>> products as I use them every day in the workshop and it's ridiculous how >>> all this nonsense gets in the way. >>> >>> Anyway, I also agree that here in the UK, if you're in a wheel chair, deaf, >>> etc you receive more support, blind and visually impaired people don't >>> matter and we're being ripped off with rubbish services, etc. Education is >>> a total mess where mainstream education should be the best option and is >>> instead hampered by people who cannot cater for a blind or visually >>> impaired person's needs and LEGAL RIGHTS. >>> >>> anyway, enough from me on that matter and I agree with your statements. >>> This world needs to open it's eyes to how we have to survice in this world >>> and that we should be treeted with the utmost respect and care, given the >>> same rights as the rest of the world and granted the support we need to be >>> able to achieve what our SIGHTED, able bodied equals should and are able >>> to do. >>> >>> lew >>> >>> On 29 Apr 2012, at 01:40, Jenny Keller wrote: >>> >>>> Well, In my humble opinion, equality isn't there, so that, isn't fair >>>> treatment. the Americans with Disabilities Act should include the blind >>>> or visually \impaired just as vigorously as it does every other disability >>>> in this country. >>>> >>>> there aren't any services, that I know of at this point, that the visually >>>> impaired community, or blind community receive that anyone else would >>>> consider unfair. >>>> >>>> Believe me, I've been almost totally blind all my life, and I can say from >>>> experience, that the simplest things that I've needed have had to be >>>> justified by education or work, which I can work because of other physical >>>> disabilities, and for education, I wasn't given the option of being taught >>>> braille in the beginning because I had some sight. So I can say out of >>>> experience, there isn't anything that I own, that I didn't beg, borrow, or >>>> barter, or finance within an inch of my disability, to get. >>>> >>>> to be very frank, there are a lot of things, such as that bar code reader >>>> they have on special on financing, which I can't afford, that my husband >>>> and I desperately need,, that I'll never be able to have. Only because I >>>> can't justify it to the government because we're not working. >>>> >>>> We both have physical limitations to prevent us from doing so, but because >>>> of that, we don't have the opportunity for the simplest and most basic of >>>> things to help us with independent cooking and identification skills. >>>> >>>> so I don't have a problem downloading anything that is descriptive from >>>> that site because I'm tired of being left out because I'm not able to work >>>> and can't afford the opportunities that I should get for things that >>>> others can. If I lived in the UK, things would be a lot different, and if >>>> I could get on a plane and become a citizen to the United Kingdom, I >>>> certainly would in, well, a New York minute. >>>> >>>> to make this apple related, the only reason I have this machine is because >>>> I had to put up with my Dad's crap and constant criticism for him to buy >>>> it for me. >>>> >>>> If it weren't for that, we wouldn't even be talking. >>>> >>>> Jenny >>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 7:06 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Keep in mind, fair doesn't always mean equal. I'm sure if we looked hard >>>>> enough, we can find some services offered exclusively to those who are >>>>> visually impaired and or blind. >>>>> >>>>> Ricardo Walker >>>>> rica...@appletothecore.info >>>>> Twitter:@apple2thecore >>>>> www.appletothecore.info >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 6:11 PM, Jenny Keller <jlperd...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> In my opinion, accessible movies, TV shows, appliances, etc, should fall >>>>>> under the ADA. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not to be politically incorrect here, but if people in wheelchairs can >>>>>> get them for free and most places are made to be accessible for them, >>>>>> and the deaf get closed captioning for almost every TV show and >>>>>> eventually DVD, and TTY phones and free relay services, then why isn't >>>>>> it mandatory that we get the same consideration. >>>>>> >>>>>> The fact is, we don't, and in my opinion, if we have to go to other >>>>>> sources to get it because this wonderful country of ours, who makes >>>>>> other disabilities have accessible products and services as mandatory, >>>>>> then we have do do it until we get our fair shake. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's fairness to all, or it shouldn't be for any. >>>>>> >>>>>> Go red, white, and blue:( >>>>>> >>>>>> Jenny >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Christine Grassman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Arguably, anything beyond the things required for daily living is a >>>>>>> luxury. Plenty of people do not have computers or TV's. I personally >>>>>>> have found a greater appreciation for movies and television shows when >>>>>>> they are described, and it is exceedingly frustrating when one cannot >>>>>>> watch a foreign film or dialogue-poor show. The level of audio >>>>>>> description in the UK versus what is available in the U.S. is >>>>>>> astounding -- in fact, the bulk of the audio description is done in >>>>>>> Great Britain. I remember not going to action movies with peers when I >>>>>>> was younger, or not being invited, because no one wanted to describe >>>>>>> them to me. I remember people becoming annoyed when my mother quietly >>>>>>> described what was going on in a movie. >>>>>>> Even important information on news broadcasts is flashed across >>>>>>> screens. If it is possible to accommodate the print-disabled and >>>>>>> visually impaired in one country, it is possible in another. We should >>>>>>> not have to pick and choose among "luxuries" -- Shopping for >>>>>>> appliances is another nightmare; I am tired of having to get someone to >>>>>>> go over touch screens and controls with me so that I can memorize, mark >>>>>>> controls, or make charts so that I can use something for which I paid >>>>>>> full price. Even companies which advertise that they have "accessible >>>>>>> manuals" either do not actually provide them or only provide them in >>>>>>> shorter, slimmed-down versions. >>>>>>> If something is accessible to people who want it and can afford it, it >>>>>>> should be accessible to all. Not only is their a fairness component, >>>>>>> but a social component: culturally, experientially, we are better >>>>>>> integrated into the social fabric of our societies when we have >>>>>>> independent, real-world access to the things our peers take for granted. >>>>>>> Christine >>>>>>> show >>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 1:34 PM, Eugenia Firth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi guys. >>>>>>>> I love audio description as much as any blind person could. Before you >>>>>>>> couldn't get them, I bought several movies on those tapes, movies I >>>>>>>> wanted to watch again. However, and maybe I'm showing my age here, but >>>>>>>> I consider audio description to be a luxury for us. I watched movies >>>>>>>> and TV just fine before we got it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Computer accessibility, however, including the Internet's >>>>>>>> accessibility, has become an increasingly frustrating necessity. I >>>>>>>> don't have statistics to back up my opinion, but I think we delude >>>>>>>> ourselves if we think we are a money-making proposition. Poor Apple >>>>>>>> has been braver than everybody else by jumping into the quicksand of >>>>>>>> accessibility. If the good folks in Cupertino are sorry they they made >>>>>>>> the plunge, they are being smart enough to be quiet about it. I think >>>>>>>> they will be better off than everyone else in that regard eventually, >>>>>>>> especially when the feds get involved in evaluating accessibility the >>>>>>>> education arena. At least Apple will have no trouble, unlike others, >>>>>>>> proving that the iPad, etc. is accessible to blind and other disabled >>>>>>>> students. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A blind friend of mine was asking me about these new vending machines >>>>>>>> that touch screens. He was asking if there was an iPhone app to >>>>>>>> control those things because he's concerned that he won't even able to >>>>>>>> get a cold drink without extra help otherwise. As it is, at least at >>>>>>>> his work, he can count the buttons. I have another blind friend whose >>>>>>>> electric oven went out, and she a terrible time finding an accessible >>>>>>>> one. My microwave is still partially inaccessible since my husband has >>>>>>>> yet to put labels onto that mostly flat screen. When I go to >>>>>>>> Louisville this summer, I can just about guarantee that I can't >>>>>>>> independently watch TV, unless you guys can tell me of an iPhone app >>>>>>>> that will for sure work with the hotel's TV. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I could go on and on giving examples. Without getting political, both >>>>>>>> blindness organizations have written resolutions for positive and/or >>>>>>>> negative motivators for some of these folks that are busy making our >>>>>>>> lives more and ore inaccessible. We lost the battle of the >>>>>>>> accessibility of curbing in our U.S. cities for blind folks, making >>>>>>>> our mobility more difficult. We can't afford to lose the computer >>>>>>>> accessibility thing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Gigi >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Eugenia Firth >>>>>>>> gigifi...@sbcglobal.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 11:44 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> not getting it just yet, figuring out finances, etc so should have it >>>>>>>>> end of may. snowed under at the mo with a machine restoration. a >>>>>>>>> vintage industrial machine I'm completely rebuilding ready for use. >>>>>>>>> so today's been spray work and drying. tomorow's the same. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> then after that it's assembly work. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> lew >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 28 Apr 2012, at 13:50, Donna Goodin wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Lew, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> congrats on your iPad. they really are cool devices. My husband >>>>>>>>>> has one, and I thought long and hard about getting one too. But >>>>>>>>>> eventually I decided that since I didn't need the larger screen, >>>>>>>>>> that the iPhone could do everything I needed, so it didn't make >>>>>>>>>> sense to duplicate devices. I confess, though, I'm envious. Every >>>>>>>>>> once in a while I look at my husband's iPad and get a sudden craving >>>>>>>>>> for coolaide. lol >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2012, at 8:44 AM, Lewis Alexander wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> nice one donna, I fully agree. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the iPad is a product which can truly change the lives of blind >>>>>>>>>>> users throughout the world. I'm in the process of buying an iPad as >>>>>>>>>>> it's needed for work both in the workshop and on site as a rep for >>>>>>>>>>> a company, so the online catalogue needs to be available and >>>>>>>>>>> accessible to me all the time, the iPad for me feels absolutely >>>>>>>>>>> amazing, after road testing the new model, I've fallen in love with >>>>>>>>>>> it. I don't need a wife, just an iPad lol >>>>>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
