I have to agree. I have a quite unpitying view of my blindness and am fiercely independent. But four hours of described television is not equality, and not being able to access it regardless of how much is ostensibly available is separate but equal, and not even that. Furthermore, where I live, it is more likely that Spanish is on the secondary audio channel than audio description. Further still, my 2003 television does not have one, nor does my DVD player. Is it then necessary for blind people to purchase expensive, new equipment to avail ourselves of the "crumbs at the table" that are dropped in grudging acquiescence of government enforcement? During the time of the civil rights movement, there were plenty of those who opined that the "victim mentality" was at the heart of the unequal treatment of minorities. I agree that the trump card of victim status is wielded far too often -- but in this case, civil disobedience of the kind Mark discussed is far different than the piracy rampant on the Internet. AS I have stated here before, even when books are available on bookshare.org, when they are available now on the Nook site or iBooks, I will purchase them. However, when the scale is balanced precariously against me, and those with whom I share a particular characteristic, regardless of our values, approach to that characteristic, etc., I will not worry about the details: this has been doable for quite a long time, and it is our due as payers of cable and satellite services. Those who cannot access streaming to the same extent also have a valid point. If my two blind children cannot, without assistance, avail themselves of the description as well, this is clearly an unequal situation: perhaps, when they cannot receive all of their materials in their preferred media -- digital or Braille, but someone is wiling to read to them, they should not think of themselves as "victims" and I am as well, when I demand that they access their materials independently, as do their sighted peers. What if there were a law which stated, "All boloind students should have access to twenty percent of the materials at school," and there were a way for them to access the material through "stolen" means? Should the rules be different merely because this is entertainment rather than education? Life encompasses all facets: enjoyment, practicalality, and so forth. I for one do not believe in the cudgel of ideology and labels for those who want -- and deserve -- equal access. Christine On Jan 21, 2013, at 9:36 AM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote:
> Karen, > > Why are you so invested in insulting the rest of the world? I think that > you've made your point quite clearly. The fact that some of us may not agree > with you does not mean that we are all self-pitying, unscrupulous, thieves. > Donna > On Jan 21, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: > >> But it can. even more independently than the reprehensible excuse for >> stealing that is blindi-TV. >> Depending of course on how the individual in question experiences their >> blindness and writes their dictionary of independence. >> Surely you do not think all individuals with a sight loss diagnoses are >> exactly the same? the definition alone makes that perspective impossible, >> limited, and counter productive. >> As a post I shared ages back expressed, all humans are dependent on each >> other in one fashion or another. This is more beneficial to understand >> than creating false concepts of any experience that translate into >> exclusion. especially based on someone Else's definition of independence. >> >> us who? lol! >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013, Donna Goodin wrote: >> >>> But, if that content cannot be independently accessed by a blind >>> individual, then it's value to us decreases significantly. >>> Donna >>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> consider asking for a supervisor Alex, it is a Holiday down there >>>> tomorrow smiles. >>>> Still it is support that the claim regarding described content being >>>> virtually nonexistent made by the blinditv people is very wrong. >>>> I feel sure the list is older, it goes back to early October of last year. >>>> the link from the aCB site which I can post too lists things by the day, >>>> but it is a google drive application. >>>> I can share the link anyway though if there is interest . >>>> Karen >>>> >>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Alex Hall wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the lists. I'll have to call up Time Warner tomorrow and see >>>>> what they have to say regarding enabling described content, then test it >>>>> out Tuesday when Big Bang Theory is on (as that's the only show on the >>>>> list that interests me). Who knows, they might have more content >>>>> available now, though I doubt that the Syfy channel makes it into the top >>>>> tier. >>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 11:35 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Okay, >>>>>> last one tonight. a tiny bit of data and I do mean tiny. >>>>>> >>>>>> The 21st Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act of >>>>>> 2010 reinstates the FCC's involvement in providing rules for >>>>>> video description. Under the rules, affiliates in the top 25 >>>>>> markets and the top five-rated cable networks will have to >>>>>> provide at least 50 hours of video described programming per >>>>>> quarter, starting July 1, 2012.^[8] >>>>>> >>>>>> this translates into at least 4 hours per week. >>>>>> Now, this is only a swift listing and is slightly dated. >>>>>> You will note that TBS has big bang theory in reruns, given this >>>>>> list was about 3 months into the rules it makes sense that CBS would be >>>>>> running them now too. >>>>>> >>>>>> ABC: >>>>>> * Don't Trust the B---- in Apartment 23 >>>>>> * Extreme Makeover: Home Edition >>>>>> * Happy Endings >>>>>> * Last Man Standing >>>>>> * The Middle >>>>>> * Modern Family >>>>>> * Nashville >>>>>> * The Neighbors >>>>>> * Secret Millionaire >>>>>> * Shark Tank >>>>>> * Suburgatory >>>>>> >>>>>> CBS: >>>>>> * Criminal Minds >>>>>> * CSI: Crime Scene Investigation >>>>>> * NCIS >>>>>> * NCIS: Los Angeles >>>>>> >>>>>> Disney Channel: >>>>>> * A.N.T. Farm >>>>>> * Austin & Ally >>>>>> * Doc McStuffins >>>>>> * Dog With a Blog >>>>>> * Fish Hooks >>>>>> * Good Luck Charlie >>>>>> * Gravity Falls >>>>>> * Jake and the Never Land Pirates >>>>>> * Jessie >>>>>> * Little Einsteins >>>>>> * Mickey Mouse Clubhouse >>>>>> * Phineas and Ferb >>>>>> * Shake It Up >>>>>> >>>>>> Fox: >>>>>> * American Dad! >>>>>> * Bob's Burgers >>>>>> * Bones >>>>>> * The Cleveland Show >>>>>> * Family Guy >>>>>> * The Following >>>>>> * Glee >>>>>> * Hell's Kitchen >>>>>> * Hotel Hell >>>>>> * Kitchen Nightmares >>>>>> * MasterChef >>>>>> * The Mindy Project >>>>>> * New Girl >>>>>> * The Simpsons >>>>>> >>>>>> NBC: >>>>>> * 30 Rock >>>>>> * Animal Practice >>>>>> * Betty White's Off Their Rockers >>>>>> * Chicago Fire >>>>>> * Community >>>>>> * Deception >>>>>> * Go On >>>>>> * Grimm >>>>>> * Guys with Kids >>>>>> * Law & Order: Special Victims Unit >>>>>> * Parenthood >>>>>> * Saving Hope >>>>>> * The Office >>>>>> * Parks and Recreation >>>>>> * Up All Night >>>>>> * Whitney >>>>>> >>>>>> Nickelodeon: >>>>>> * The Backyardigans >>>>>> * Bubble Guppies >>>>>> * Dora the Explorer >>>>>> * The Fairly OddParents >>>>>> * Go, Diego, Go! >>>>>> * Max and Ruby >>>>>> * Mike the Knight >>>>>> * Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide >>>>>> * Rugrats >>>>>> * Splatalot! >>>>>> * Team Umizoomi >>>>>> >>>>>> TBS: >>>>>> * The Big Bang Theory (reruns) >>>>>> * Tyler Perry's For Better or Worse >>>>>> * Tyler Perry's House of Payne >>>>>> >>>>>> TNT: >>>>>> * The Closer >>>>>> * Law & Order (reruns) >>>>>> >>>>>> Turner Classic Movies: >>>>>> >>>>>> * Various films, listed on WGBH's DVS page on TCM >>>>>> >>>>>> USA Network: >>>>>> * Common Law >>>>>> * Covert Affairs >>>>>> * CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (reruns) >>>>>> * Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (reruns) >>>>>> * NCIS (reruns) >>>>>> * NCIS: Los Angeles (reruns) >>>>>> * Psych >>>>>> * Royal Pains >>>>>> * Suits >>>>>> Again its dated, but see what I mean? >>>>>> Karen >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Alex Hall wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> At the risk of being off-topic, could you provide us with some popular >>>>>>> shows that have audio description? Specifically, I enjoy Star Trek, >>>>>>> Doctor Who, Star Gate (well, I would enjoy that one were it described), >>>>>>> and the CBS show The Big Bang Theory. To my knowledge, none of these >>>>>>> are ever described. If they are, I would love to know about it. I can >>>>>>> figure out how to enable the descriptions if indeed there are >>>>>>> descriptions to be heard, but I don't think these shows regularly air >>>>>>> with any descriptions. Perhaps my cable company (TWC) would know, but I >>>>>>> have never had much luck asking basic tech support about accessibility >>>>>>> - they never seem to know what I'm talking about. I do agree that blind >>>>>>> people cannot have it both ways, but exactly what are we supposed to do >>>>>>> in the years it takes standard programming to become accessible? >>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 8:52 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> depending on where you are, the source of your programming, your cable >>>>>>>> provider or satellites provider is required to make that work for you. >>>>>>>> In fact you can file an FCC complaint now if they do not. >>>>>>>> Additionally, efforts going on to make those menus work easily will >>>>>>>> not get much support if people are just going to circulate avenues to >>>>>>>> stolen property. >>>>>>>> And you wonder why the author's guild fears making books work? >>>>>>>> What is keeping programs with audio descriptions from getting >>>>>>>> sponsorship the way captioning does? >>>>>>>> The attitude that those getting the description do not deserve to be >>>>>>>> treated like the rest of the consumer marketplace. >>>>>>>> They can and will just steal it and circulate it as if this is >>>>>>>> perfectly fine. >>>>>>>> You cannot have it both ways, either you deserve a respected place at >>>>>>>> the audience market table regardless of how differently you view that >>>>>>>> table, or you deserve the stolen crumbs from that table. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Devin Prater wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for that. If I can figure out how the menus on my TV work, I >>>>>>>>> will certainly use what the FCC has provided. >>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 7:32 PM, Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> you bet it really matters. >>>>>>>>>> And yes they do. >>>>>>>>>> As of July 2012, all five broadcast networks and the same cable >>>>>>>>>> networks must provide audio described content, and they are doing i, >>>>>>>>>> every single week. >>>>>>>>>> all television stations in the top 25 markets stateside must provide >>>>>>>>>> the content as well...with additional markets joining each year. >>>>>>>>>> why should anyone invest in population who is simply going to steal >>>>>>>>>> property. >>>>>>>>>> cable providers and satellites providers must insure that you can >>>>>>>>>> access the described content. >>>>>>>>>> I do not have the link to post now, but program listings and details >>>>>>>>>> are on the ACB website. >>>>>>>>>> frankly I find this exclusionary and distasteful. >>>>>>>>>> consumers who happen to score differently on an eye chart, must be >>>>>>>>>> segregated to stolen property on the Internet Never mind that >>>>>>>>>> Hollywood films and television shows air each week with described >>>>>>>>>> content. >>>>>>>>>> are you so lacking in personal dignity that you feel stolen property >>>>>>>>>> is all you deserve? >>>>>>>>>> Especially since the entire thing could be done legally? >>>>>>>>>> Is to some extent already. >>>>>>>>>> No one is going to value you if you do not value yourselves, >>>>>>>>>> document that there is a market, use what the FCC is doing to >>>>>>>>>> enhance the ability for everyone to enjoy television as they choose. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Karen >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Devin Prater wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hmm. Does it really matter? No one else seems to provide this, do >>>>>>>>>>> they? >>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ahem, >>>>>>>>>>>> they do have the legal right to run this service with this content? >>>>>>>>>>>> Karen >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Are their any UK channels? Do you think we could have an IOS App >>>>>>>>>>>>> so that we can watch this service anywhere we go and we're not >>>>>>>>>>>>> tied to the computer? I like this service. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kawal. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 Jan 2013, at 07:51 PM, Devin Prater <d.pra...@me.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do like this service. Its pretty good, I can finally watch >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sci-fi, and therefore can watch star trek! :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Matt Dierckens >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <matt.dierck...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been given permission to post about this from another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. This is a great service. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check it out and please spread the word. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blindy.tv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever wanted to watch TV with audio description but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't get the track on your tv? Well, now you can...sort of. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.blindy.tv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This project was created so that everyone could watch TV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> episodes with audio description. Every show (except the brain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> channel) has described content. You can switch channels just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like with an actual TV. So far, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their are 5 channels. Comedy, Drama, Si-fi, Brain and ETC. More >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may be added if needed. Each show is either 30 or 60 minutes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> long. After the show their are commercials (better than on TV, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can promise you that), a news segment or comedy skit, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some instrumental music at the top and bottom of each hour. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To access this place, you can do one of two things: You can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either go to the website linked above and used the web players, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or, if you'd rather listen in your media player of choice, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> place this link into it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will load all channels, and you can use the next and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous controls to move through the different channels. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blindy.tv/all.m3u >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please give any suggestions or criticisms you have. Feedback is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always welcome. If you like the service, let us know. If you do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not, tell us what we could do to fix it up. Please spread the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> word if you like it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: matt692 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have a great day, >>>>>>> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) >>>>>>> mehg...@gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Have a great day, >>>>> Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini) >>>>> mehg...@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> 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