Well, the thing for me is, that if I can get the DVS on the TV, then fine, wonderful. I'll surely use it sometimes. But what about when I'm at school, and I want to watch something? I go to a blind school, so I stay in a dorm all through the week. What do I do there? All the other kids watch spungebob or whatever, so I just mainly stream my content, which up to now has just been music and stuff, which I didn't really stream but rather just got from iTunes. But now that I'm slightly interested in the whole TV thing, what is there there? No one at the school knows about the whole FCC thing, and I really don't think they'd go through the trouble of getting it on there TVs. Must I pay for Serotek, when the sited get the same and much more content when they want it? I know for a fact that Serotek doesn't have all the star trek episodes that have been described. I am also curious as to where they got the content they do have from. Would it be possible that they have it illegally, and we are paying for an illegal service? On Jan 21, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote:
> read your own posts Donna, particularly those about the value "to *us.*" > what *us* can you possibly mean? > Many in this thread have stated plainly that they have no problem whatsoever > breaking any law they feel prevents them from having something they want, > using and stealing protected content...by your dictionary then, they are > included in your "*us*." > My point has been that for *me* personally there is no relationship between > comfort and stealing, the same can be achieved without the use of stolen > property, and the same is already done over the airways. The latter > particularly is something the blindi-TV people are telling lies about in an > effort to attract people to their site. > I documented for those who asked the existence daily of described content > fully and legally available. Reachable without violating any laws and if > supported possibly matching even your idea of comfort depending on how you > define comfort. > My point has been, and I have no issue whatsoever owning my opinions without > the need to create an *us* around them is that the content is there. support > the content legally and there can be more of it, faster and easier. > Demonstrate that those who have copyright concerns have a reason to fear, > supporting a service rooting its activity in lies for example, and you > justify the copyright holders concerns. > > I cannot speak to your personal Morals Donna, I can say though that I respect > your right to them. as long as you do not project them on to me by way of an > association that does not exist between ahem *us* . at all. As long as you > do not use them to justify violating the rights of others for the sake of > your personal comfort...including me or anyone else in your definition of > personal comfort. > I leave you to read your own posts and discover where that came from, and > examine within yourself why it is so hard for *you* to own your choices > without needing to create an *us* to support them. > I know firmly that nothing you say here applies to me already smiles. > The only thing we have in common is our humanity and the freedom to live > differently that comes along with it. > You say, reduces the value for *us* not reduces the value for me personally. > If you cannot understand or choose not to understand the difference in that > sentence...well. > > > > On Mon, 21 Jan 2013, Donna Goodin wrote: > >> Where the **** did that come from? >> >> I haven't made a single generalization about how others should or should not >> live, all that's come from you. Or perhaps you don't consider accusing >> others of stealing passing judgment? >> >> FWIW, I find my life to be quite wonderful, and yes, at times "unique and >> magical". I just don't happen to believe that being comfortable streaming >> online content makes me a moral degenerate. >> Donna >> >> On Jan 21, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> Donna, >>> Why are you so invested in reducing every persons experience of sight loss >>> to your own? >>> I think you discover every day, if you so choose that is, that how one >>> lives with a situation is as unique and magical as they desire. >>> I personally have climbed no mountains, played golf tennis, or gone skiing >>> lately...but I am not about to decide those who do this, and experience >>> sight loss, are less independent because they do. >>> Perhaps you should examine for yourself what it is about other people doing >>> things differently that bothers you so much? >>> >>> Karen >>> >>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013, Donna Goodin wrote: >>> >>>> Karen, >>>> >>>> Why are you so invested in insulting the rest of the world? I think that >>>> you've made your point quite clearly. The fact that some of us may not >>>> agree with you does not mean that we are all self-pitying, unscrupulous, >>>> thieves. >>>> Donna >>>> On Jan 21, 2013, at 8:22 AM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> But it can. even more independently than the reprehensible excuse for >>>>> stealing that is blindi-TV. >>>>> Depending of course on how the individual in question experiences their >>>>> blindness and writes their dictionary of independence. >>>>> Surely you do not think all individuals with a sight loss diagnoses are >>>>> exactly the same? the definition alone makes that perspective >>>>> impossible, limited, and counter productive. >>>>> As a post I shared ages back expressed, all humans are dependent on each >>>>> other in one fashion or another. This is more beneficial to understand >>>>> than creating false concepts of any experience that translate into >>>>> exclusion. especially based on someone Else's definition of independence. >>>>> >>>>> us who? lol! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 21 Jan 2013, Donna Goodin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> But, if that content cannot be independently accessed by a blind >>>>>> individual, then it's value to us decreases significantly. >>>>>> Donna >>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 10:47 PM, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> consider asking for a supervisor Alex, it is a Holiday down there >>>>>>> tomorrow smiles. >>>>>>> Still it is support that the claim regarding described content being >>>>>>> virtually nonexistent made by the blinditv people is very wrong. >>>>>>> I feel sure the list is older, it goes back to early October of last >>>>>>> year. >>>>>>> the link from the aCB site which I can post too lists things by the >>>>>>> day, but it is a google drive application. >>>>>>> I can share the link anyway though if there is interest . >>>>>>> Karen >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Alex Hall wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the lists. I'll have to call up Time Warner tomorrow and >>>>>>>> see what they have to say regarding enabling described content, then >>>>>>>> test it out Tuesday when Big Bang Theory is on (as that's the only >>>>>>>> show on the list that interests me). Who knows, they might have more >>>>>>>> content available now, though I doubt that the Syfy channel makes it >>>>>>>> into the top tier. >>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 11:35 PM, Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Okay, >>>>>>>>> last one tonight. a tiny bit of data and I do mean tiny. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The 21st Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act of >>>>>>>>> 2010 reinstates the FCC's involvement in providing rules for >>>>>>>>> video description. Under the rules, affiliates in the top 25 >>>>>>>>> markets and the top five-rated cable networks will have to >>>>>>>>> provide at least 50 hours of video described programming per >>>>>>>>> quarter, starting July 1, 2012.^[8] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> this translates into at least 4 hours per week. >>>>>>>>> Now, this is only a swift listing and is slightly dated. >>>>>>>>> You will note that TBS has big bang theory in reruns, given this >>>>>>>>> list was about 3 months into the rules it makes sense that CBS would >>>>>>>>> be running them now too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ABC: >>>>>>>>> * Don't Trust the B---- in Apartment 23 >>>>>>>>> * Extreme Makeover: Home Edition >>>>>>>>> * Happy Endings >>>>>>>>> * Last Man Standing >>>>>>>>> * The Middle >>>>>>>>> * Modern Family >>>>>>>>> * Nashville >>>>>>>>> * The Neighbors >>>>>>>>> * Secret Millionaire >>>>>>>>> * Shark Tank >>>>>>>>> * Suburgatory >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> CBS: >>>>>>>>> * Criminal Minds >>>>>>>>> * CSI: Crime Scene Investigation >>>>>>>>> * NCIS >>>>>>>>> * NCIS: Los Angeles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Disney Channel: >>>>>>>>> * A.N.T. Farm >>>>>>>>> * Austin & Ally >>>>>>>>> * Doc McStuffins >>>>>>>>> * Dog With a Blog >>>>>>>>> * Fish Hooks >>>>>>>>> * Good Luck Charlie >>>>>>>>> * Gravity Falls >>>>>>>>> * Jake and the Never Land Pirates >>>>>>>>> * Jessie >>>>>>>>> * Little Einsteins >>>>>>>>> * Mickey Mouse Clubhouse >>>>>>>>> * Phineas and Ferb >>>>>>>>> * Shake It Up >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Fox: >>>>>>>>> * American Dad! >>>>>>>>> * Bob's Burgers >>>>>>>>> * Bones >>>>>>>>> * The Cleveland Show >>>>>>>>> * Family Guy >>>>>>>>> * The Following >>>>>>>>> * Glee >>>>>>>>> * Hell's Kitchen >>>>>>>>> * Hotel Hell >>>>>>>>> * Kitchen Nightmares >>>>>>>>> * MasterChef >>>>>>>>> * The Mindy Project >>>>>>>>> * New Girl >>>>>>>>> * The Simpsons >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> NBC: >>>>>>>>> * 30 Rock >>>>>>>>> * Animal Practice >>>>>>>>> * Betty White's Off Their Rockers >>>>>>>>> * Chicago Fire >>>>>>>>> * Community >>>>>>>>> * Deception >>>>>>>>> * Go On >>>>>>>>> * Grimm >>>>>>>>> * Guys with Kids >>>>>>>>> * Law & Order: Special Victims Unit >>>>>>>>> * Parenthood >>>>>>>>> * Saving Hope >>>>>>>>> * The Office >>>>>>>>> * Parks and Recreation >>>>>>>>> * Up All Night >>>>>>>>> * Whitney >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nickelodeon: >>>>>>>>> * The Backyardigans >>>>>>>>> * Bubble Guppies >>>>>>>>> * Dora the Explorer >>>>>>>>> * The Fairly OddParents >>>>>>>>> * Go, Diego, Go! >>>>>>>>> * Max and Ruby >>>>>>>>> * Mike the Knight >>>>>>>>> * Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide >>>>>>>>> * Rugrats >>>>>>>>> * Splatalot! >>>>>>>>> * Team Umizoomi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TBS: >>>>>>>>> * The Big Bang Theory (reruns) >>>>>>>>> * Tyler Perry's For Better or Worse >>>>>>>>> * Tyler Perry's House of Payne >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> TNT: >>>>>>>>> * The Closer >>>>>>>>> * Law & Order (reruns) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Turner Classic Movies: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Various films, listed on WGBH's DVS page on TCM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> USA Network: >>>>>>>>> * Common Law >>>>>>>>> * Covert Affairs >>>>>>>>> * CSI: Crime Scene Investigation (reruns) >>>>>>>>> * Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (reruns) >>>>>>>>> * NCIS (reruns) >>>>>>>>> * NCIS: Los Angeles (reruns) >>>>>>>>> * Psych >>>>>>>>> * Royal Pains >>>>>>>>> * Suits >>>>>>>>> Again its dated, but see what I mean? >>>>>>>>> Karen >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Alex Hall wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> At the risk of being off-topic, could you provide us with some >>>>>>>>>> popular shows that have audio description? Specifically, I enjoy >>>>>>>>>> Star Trek, Doctor Who, Star Gate (well, I would enjoy that one were >>>>>>>>>> it described), and the CBS show The Big Bang Theory. To my >>>>>>>>>> knowledge, none of these are ever described. If they are, I would >>>>>>>>>> love to know about it. I can figure out how to enable the >>>>>>>>>> descriptions if indeed there are descriptions to be heard, but I >>>>>>>>>> don't think these shows regularly air with any descriptions. Perhaps >>>>>>>>>> my cable company (TWC) would know, but I have never had much luck >>>>>>>>>> asking basic tech support about accessibility - they never seem to >>>>>>>>>> know what I'm talking about. I do agree that blind people cannot >>>>>>>>>> have it both ways, but exactly what are we supposed to do in the >>>>>>>>>> years it takes standard programming to become accessible? >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 8:52 PM, Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> depending on where you are, the source of your programming, your >>>>>>>>>>> cable provider or satellites provider is required to make that work >>>>>>>>>>> for you. >>>>>>>>>>> In fact you can file an FCC complaint now if they do not. >>>>>>>>>>> Additionally, efforts going on to make those menus work easily will >>>>>>>>>>> not get much support if people are just going to circulate avenues >>>>>>>>>>> to stolen property. >>>>>>>>>>> And you wonder why the author's guild fears making books work? >>>>>>>>>>> What is keeping programs with audio descriptions from getting >>>>>>>>>>> sponsorship the way captioning does? >>>>>>>>>>> The attitude that those getting the description do not deserve to >>>>>>>>>>> be treated like the rest of the consumer marketplace. >>>>>>>>>>> They can and will just steal it and circulate it as if this is >>>>>>>>>>> perfectly fine. >>>>>>>>>>> You cannot have it both ways, either you deserve a respected place >>>>>>>>>>> at the audience market table regardless of how differently you view >>>>>>>>>>> that table, or you deserve the stolen crumbs from that table. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Devin Prater wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that. If I can figure out how the menus on my TV work, >>>>>>>>>>>> I will certainly use what the FCC has provided. >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 7:32 PM, Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you bet it really matters. >>>>>>>>>>>>> And yes they do. >>>>>>>>>>>>> As of July 2012, all five broadcast networks and the same cable >>>>>>>>>>>>> networks must provide audio described content, and they are doing >>>>>>>>>>>>> i, every single week. >>>>>>>>>>>>> all television stations in the top 25 markets stateside must >>>>>>>>>>>>> provide the content as well...with additional markets joining >>>>>>>>>>>>> each year. >>>>>>>>>>>>> why should anyone invest in population who is simply going to >>>>>>>>>>>>> steal property. >>>>>>>>>>>>> cable providers and satellites providers must insure that you can >>>>>>>>>>>>> access the described content. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not have the link to post now, but program listings and >>>>>>>>>>>>> details are on the ACB website. >>>>>>>>>>>>> frankly I find this exclusionary and distasteful. >>>>>>>>>>>>> consumers who happen to score differently on an eye chart, must >>>>>>>>>>>>> be segregated to stolen property on the Internet Never mind that >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hollywood films and television shows air each week with >>>>>>>>>>>>> described content. >>>>>>>>>>>>> are you so lacking in personal dignity that you feel stolen >>>>>>>>>>>>> property is all you deserve? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Especially since the entire thing could be done legally? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Is to some extent already. >>>>>>>>>>>>> No one is going to value you if you do not value yourselves, >>>>>>>>>>>>> document that there is a market, use what the FCC is doing to >>>>>>>>>>>>> enhance the ability for everyone to enjoy television as they >>>>>>>>>>>>> choose. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Karen >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Devin Prater wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hmm. Does it really matter? No one else seems to provide this, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do they? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 7:03 PM, Karen Lewellen >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahem, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they do have the legal right to run this service with this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2013, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are their any UK channels? Do you think we could have an IOS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> App so that we can watch this service anywhere we go and we're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not tied to the computer? I like this service. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kawal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 20 Jan 2013, at 07:51 PM, Devin Prater <d.pra...@me.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do like this service. Its pretty good, I can finally watch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sci-fi, and therefore can watch star trek! :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Matt Dierckens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <matt.dierck...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been given permission to post about this from another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list. This is a great service. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check it out and please spread the word. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blindy.tv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you ever wanted to watch TV with audio description but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't get the track on your tv? Well, now you can...sort of. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.blindy.tv >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This project was created so that everyone could watch TV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> episodes with audio description. Every show (except the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brain channel) has described content. You can switch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> channels just like with an actual TV. So far, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their are 5 channels. Comedy, Drama, Si-fi, Brain and ETC. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More may be added if needed. Each show is either 30 or 60 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes long. After the show their are commercials (better >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than on TV, I can promise you that), a news segment or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comedy skit, and some instrumental music at the top and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom of each hour. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To access this place, you can do one of two things: You can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either go to the website linked above and used the web >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, or, if you'd rather listen in your media player of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> choice, place this link into it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will load all channels, and you can use the next and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous controls to move through the different channels. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://blindy.tv/all.m3u >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please give any suggestions or criticisms you have. Feedback >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is always welcome. If you like the service, let us know. If >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you do not, tell us what we could do to fix it up. Please >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spread the word if you like it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: matt692 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- 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