Thanks for your detailed answers.
Le 5/01/10 9:37, « CeJ » <jann...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > Perhaps the more interesting issue here is the one of conflict within > the 'ruling class'. > > Bush seemed to have near-universal support over his post-9/11 > policies. And a war is often a good way to bring together the > imaginary--even hysterical--interests of the ruling class with the > religio-nationalist interests of the ruled, so as to keep the class > conflicts in check (the real interests of the ruling class being > perpetuation of rule, enrichment for their factions). I say that more > or less amounts to the post-modern version of fascism, others argue > against the use of such terminology. I think the deniers ought to have > to spend one week in Iraq or Afghanistan and be forced to tell the > Americans how the shit the US serves up tastes so good and how much > they love them for it. Then they might change their minds about the > semantics. (I agree on the other hand that the old definition of the > term regarding mass parties who could and did take political power in > nations is largely obsolete.) > > The ruling class debate under Clinton was whether to proceed with > impeaching him over a blowjob--or not. The majority were for > politically damaging him to the point where he did almost nothing in > office except bomb Iraq and Yugoslavia, but note how abruptly the > impeachment movement collapsed when they realized what they were about > to do (and remember Joe Leiberman was the Judas then too who helped > take it that far). Even Clinton's bombing of Yugoslavia, if you review > the votes in Congress, reveals the ruling class was split against him, > which is unusual because wars in the US are at least at the beginning > quite popular, especially ones where the US gets to show overwhelming > might and not suffer many casualties (although the much-vaunted US > military never did show any effectiveness whatsover against Serb > forces in Kosovo--which is why they chose the 'bomb Yugoslavia' > option). > > The ruling class debate under Bush was far less contentious. One, it > was over how best to cover up the fact that the national security > state in charge of 'national security' (while enriching itself) had > fucked up so badly that it had only managed to enrich itself. The > solution? Start wars and conflicts on multiple fronts and scare the > shit ouf the civilian populations of 'western democracies'. While > enriching themselves. > > The next ruling class debate under Bush was over the war on > Iraq--which if you remember had been going on for over a decade. > Clinton had even bought himself some relief by signing on to > full-blown 'regime change' and increasing military spending in his > last two years in office. The debate wasn't about whether to wage the > war but rather how to do it. Often the discussion was about how to bring > NATO and UN satellites along for the war. The inner debate though was > about just how much of the US's extremely expensive military to commit > to the invasion and first two years of occupation. > > Under Obama the ruling class showed itself -- I'm guessing -- AGAINST > major health care reform--that is, a public option. So although the > ruling class overall supports Obama and his policies so far in terms > of dropping bombs and assigning troops, they didn't support his stance > on health care. But he only made that stance in 2008, before he took > office. I didn't note any impassioned speeches from the guy when the > actual debate in Congress was taking place. He simply diddled himself > and played with Gen. McChrystal. Like most presidents the man has > the power--and apparently the will--to start new wars, even destroy the world, > but he can't take a disciplined stand on health care. I think behind > all that nice dental work and ghost-authored speeches, > like a lot of people who studied under Zbigniew, > Obama really doesn't give a shit either. He makes Bill Clinton look > like a vertebrate. _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis
