On Friday 02 December 2005 19:58, Dotan wrote: > Shlomi Fish wrote: > >On Friday 02 December 2005 16:10, Dotan wrote: > >>Shlomi Fish wrote: > >>>On Thursday 01 December 2005 22:42, Dotan wrote: > >>>>Alon Altman wrote: > >>>>>On Thu, 1 Dec 2005, Dotan wrote: > >>>>>>I didn't talk of W2L I talked of the web archives and I did advertise > >>>>>>JLCs W2L series on FOSS related sites (you might want to check which > >>>>>>club has its coming events on the events boards in Whatsup, > >>>>>>Linmagazine and IGLU, you may also check which club had ads in the > >>>>>>Tapuz and Nana forums prior to it's series opening and the > >>>>>>instaparty. BTW in Tapuz it was some tech forum that made my > >>>>>>announcment sticky and not the Linux forum) > >>>>> > >>>>> So, you took care of your own interests, when you could have invested > >>>>>exactly the same amount of effort to advance the W2L series for all > >>>>>clubs. > >>>> > >>>>No I couldn't because you choose to address CS-students and such that > >>>>look for linux on google. This is not the audiance I was advertising > >>>> for. > >>>> > >>>>>It seems that you are more interested in your own personal success > >>>>> than advancing free software in Israel. Way to go! > >>>> > >>>>Well... the W2L site does not link to the JLCs W2L dedicated site but > >>>> we link to yours. > >>> > >>>A link could easily be added, if you told us to. > >> > >>I'm sure you know of the site. You can decide where and what to link. I > >>choose to link the general site but the general site webmaster choose > >>not to link the JLC page. > > > >We have a link to the JLC page. And you can have always asked. I am not a > >mind-reader yet, you know. > > read the mail and you won't have to read the mind > http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/w2l/09-2005/0572.html > that was way before (almost two weeks) the general site was updated. > Maybe you even know of http://linmagazine.co.il/node/view/11839 >
I'm sorry, but I tend to forget about such mails. I receive so many mails and have so many things to do, that they are often lost in confusion or delayed to another time. If you want me to do something, tell it to me via IM or by phone or whatever. You have my IM accounts, and phone numbers, right. > >>>Note that I began revamping the existing jlc.iglu.org.il site, but then > >>>after a JLC meeting which I did not attend, someone called me and > >>>informed out of the blue, that he created a new site in PHP for the > >>> club, and that I should host it on Eskimo. > >> > >>You might recall we had different problems with the site and that those > >> who volunteered to update it did not give results. I'm very happy with > >> the whole new site Yehuda came up with in a time frame which the > >> previous existing site didn't even got to be updated. > > > >I started updating the previous site, but was stopped in the middle. He > > could have helped me with the previous site, but he didn't. The decision > > to abandon the previous site was made _while I was working on it_ and > > _without me saying anything about it_. > > > >>>>but some people seem to > >>>>like ugly "informative" websites. > >>> > >>>I like informative websites, but I don't think they should be ugly. If > >>> the website is ugly it's because no-one moved a muscle to change the > >>> fact. > >> > >>Ram offered his help but was sent from one person to the other cause one > >>don't have time and the other don't like PHP/frames/icons/links... > > > >No he was not. He was sent to me. I told him I'd rather that he won't do > > his site in PHP, because it was unnecessary in this case. So Ram > > automatically deduced that the HTML should be written by hand, and as a > > result asked me if he can do it with frames. However, frames are Evil > >( http://www.html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil ) and I told him to > > avoid it. I said that he should generate the web-site's HTML instead, > > using a pre-rendering program, and after consulting with Alon, it was > > decided that we _will_ allow him to use PHP. (Due to his cluelessness) > > However, we did not hear from him since. > > need I say more?! > > >>I can understand why he preffered to make better use of his time > >> > >>>>Moreover the general W2L was not updated long after the JLC published > >>>>its schedule and untill pretty short time before the series actualy > >>>>started. > >>> > >>>Did you send me the up-to-date schedule in time? > >> > >>Yes > > > >I see. It was integrated eventually. However, then there were other later > >changes that I was not notified about. > > The only change I can recall from my original post was the move from > Wednesdays to Tuesdays. Actually there was also this: http://linmagazine.co.il/node/view/14428 > Adopting the "eventualism" as the mode of action makes it hard to keep > you updated so I might have missed some changes. > Will you stop accusing me of this "eventualism"? I said eventually once for a process that took at most 2 days, if not a single day. (I can check my ICQ logs if you want). > >>>>All in all I believe our site was much better then the general one > >>>>and it's too bad you choose not to link it (AFAIK Ram was willing to > >>>> make the general site look better but his offers were rejected). > >>> > >>>No, they were not. Ram contacted me about the site. I told him it's not > >>>necessary to write the site in PHP, and he thought the only alternative > >>>was to write it directly in HTML. I told him he should use my existing > >>>Web Meta Language framework, but he did not know it, and refused to > >>>invest time in learning it. Alon eventually told me to let him write the > >>>site in PHP, and I told Ram it's OK, but Ram did not produce any results > >>>since. > >> > >>Eventualy is the key word here. > > > >No it's not. All of this took one or two days. Ram had plenty of time to > >revamp the site, but he did not move a muscle. > > After you wasted two days of his time did you call him again and asked > him for help? I did not waste two days of his time. The entire conversations took at most 1 hour net. I told him that he could start working on the site in PHP, and expected any results whatsoever, while I continued to maintain the old site. But he didn't produce any results. > > >>>>I thinks visitors of the general W2L site could and yet may get a very > >>>>wrong impression about Linux due to look and content of the site. > >>> > >>>Perhaps, but that's what we have now, mainly because only Alon and I > >>>updated it. > >> > >>As I said there were other options that beurocracy scared away (this > >>refers to what you called "eventualy"). > > > >Maybe Ram was scared, but that was his fault. If he were a bit more > > clueful, he would have known that he can generate static HTML using Perl, > > PHP, Web Meta Language (which I'm using), Python or whatever. But he > > obviously thought that the only options were either using PHP on the > > server side or writing HTML by hand. We eventually let him use PHP on the > > server side, but then he did not do anything about it, and even did not > > let us how he felt, so we could have told him he could go ahead. > > Regards, Shlomi Fish --------------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.shlomifish.org/ 95% of the programmers consider 95% of the code they did not write, in the bottom 5%.
