I admit to being shocked at some of the replies.
Ari
--- On Tue, 3/2/09, David Kusumoto <davidmkusum...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: David Kusumoto <davidmkusum...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [MOPO] those testimonials for tloceposters
To: mop...@sol03.american.edu
Received: Tuesday, 3 February, 2009, 2:43 PM
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No, Sean, you are not alone. Had I more time to get involved in daily
discussions, I would post more. But coming across yours, I feel compelled to
comment on the "moral compass" issue. I equally object to dealing with a known
seller of fakes, however allegedly "inadvertent," a.k.a. those whose
testimonials have the effect of casting Mr. Loce's actions like an "honest
mistake" or "just a part of doing business" in the competitive marketplace. I
bought several minty whites from those guys many years ago and unloaded them
all for free to friends who didn't care after I told them they were repros. (I
didn't discover until LONG after I bought them that they were phony and figured
my statute of limitations had run out seeking a refund for posters acquired for
"too good to be true prices.")
To me, it appears at MoPo we've been reading -- during the last two days --
testimonials from people who -- while not condoning the practice of selling
fakes -- appear to shrug off the issue on the basis of their own personal,
one-on-one dealings, e.g., sounding along the lines of, "I'm aware of the
controversy associated with Mr. Loce, but because I haven't been ripped off
personally (or by much) -- and because my communications with him have been
cordial, friendly, etc., he appears to be an otherwise nice guy, blah-blah-blah
- hence he hasn't been a crook to ME" -- with the word, "ME" being the
emphasis. You get the feeling reading these testimonials that he's being
re-cast as an "everyone makes mistakes" and "he's not all bad" guy because
we're once again -- NOT HEARING from many of those too-g**-damn-quiet people
who are afraid of him or who think it's bad manners among the "group-think" to
throw a dealer or a customer -- under the bus for any
reason. I am definitely sounding sanctimonious when I say I would not go out
of my way to PUBLICLY defend a "friend" considered dodgy in many collecting
harbors. (I might add, however, that I might approach or defend such a
"friend" privately, one-on-one; but if a true "friend" accused of such behavior
lacks contrition, it's safe to say I'd end that friendship.)
To me, dealing with people who occasionally do business with shady characters,
looking the other way so long as they themselves have not been personally
ripped off -- reminds me of the time when Sue Heim's posters were stolen years
ago by convicted felon Joe Hernandez and she had a list of dealers who
knowingly bought the material "hot" without knowing that she personally was the
victim. She had good manners and dealt with it in her own way. But she never
forgot, esp. when people rushed to his defense or attempted to dilute the
offenses in weird-ass ways. I would not want to be associated with, be friends
with or do business with any person continuing to engage in transactions
with known deceptive practices. So what if you got your money back? It's not
a wash just because you got some "good with bad." You simply cut your losses
by being proactive or getting lucky. It's astonishing to read such
rationalizations as if the guy is going
through some sort of re-hab hence shouldn't be kicked too harshly.
-kuz.
-----Original Message-----
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:44:05 -0500
From: slinkenb...@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: tloceposters
To: mop...@sol03.american.edu
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I was always taught that when you can identify someone who knowingly sells
reproductions as originals (for over a decade) at a minimum, and more than
likely contributed to their manufacture, you should do everything you can to
NOT deal with that person.
The attitude here seems to be one of, well as long as he is pleasant about
trying to rip me off, and as long as I can get a refund if I happen to discover
his schemes I am ok in dealing with him.
For some reason I don’t have the attitude that it’s ok to knowingly deal with
someone who purposefully tries to pass off fake posters as being legitimate and
who has driven countless numbers of people out of the hobby when they find out
how they’ve been ripped off and no one warned them and/or others had the
attitude of “oh yeah, most people have been ripped off by him before.”
I’m amazed by the lack of a moral center by the members of MoPo.
But I guess that’s just me.
From: MoPo List [mailto:mop...@sol03.american.edu] On Behalf Of Michael B
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:20 PM
To: mop...@sol03.american.edu
Subject: [MOPO] tloceposters
he is getting play here. does anyone have his direct email so i can send him
my want list?
mbb
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