gav,
That is a very important message. I've talked about my family
here a lot. I've mentioned everyday routines and
how they are morally philosophical. I've said how washing the dishes
is as philosophical as abstractions. All of this due to what we
do is a continuation of what we think and vice versa. The whole
start with the heart and hands and go out from there Pirsig mentioned.
Yet, as my effort to grow a dream from thought to ever increasing
application into society, I didn't know what I was getting into
at the time, but now it looks ever the more dangerous. I mean
why do I find myself saying this? I don't think it's only me. I've
faced a black bear down and run into coyotes without a weapon other
than a big stick on the former. Yet, the woods are easy, predictable, and
comforting. I know what to expect in the woods.
Now speaking as an anthropologist (I'll change into my academic
background for the moment) expectations are the underlying issue into
developing culture. Culture is all about expectations. That's why culture
heavily entrenches expected routines. People are sensitive to too
much rapid change. With expectations we are able to comfortably
move about and we know what to expect from most people in our culture.
The opposite is known as culture shock. This happens to people that
visit different cultures. They run into all kinds of unexpected situations and
it can be shocking. Much of what I'm hearing is unexpected. It is shocking.
I'm so used to the woods, so, I've always had a shock from time to time
with this culture. When I was a teenager over ten years ago I called it
a circle trying to fit in a square. I was the circle being in the woods all
the time
and then when I needed to find a job in this culture, this culture was more
a square. It was difficult. I didn't fit in. This culture doesn't fit in
with the
woods at all.
Excellent message gav! We need to stick together. Interesting World
Strike
event that is upcoming. Makes me wonder how big will it be. How will the
gov't
react. So many new wonderings. Nov. 5 eh?
woods
________________________________
From: gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 8:42:20 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] growth and sustainability
i am with you woodsy,
i dinnae put too much hope in obamalot. hey could be wrong but odds on its
pretty much business as usual: mammon mia, here we go again.....
let's face it even if a really good greeny got in would they actually be able
to achieve much....ever seen 'yes minister' from the uk....thatcher's fave
programme, seriously.
anyway....i think we should all stay calm and keep in contact with each other -
our friends, family, neighbours, community. now is the time for solidarity -
for support, for remembering we are all in it together and there's nothing to
fear: if we all support and validate each other.
life is on the street.
--- On Thu, 23/10/08, Woods Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Woods Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MD] growth and sustainability
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Received: Thursday, 23 October, 2008, 10:52 PM
> woods previously said:
> Curious. Do you really think Obama is going to change this
> fascist slide? His interests are easy to see, too. He voted
> for the bailout. He's for gun control. This is way over
> Obama's head, and he's going to have a difficult
> time changing anything in Washington even if Obama still has
> a glimmering morsel of morality left in him.
>
> dmb says:
> I don't see any reason to think Obama has been drained
> of morality. And the idea that he's in over his head is
> even more bizarre. He's brilliant, in fact. He was the
> nation's top law student, editor of Harvard's law
> review, worked for years as a constitutional law professor
> and I'd be shocked if his I.Q. was less than 130. And if
> you're saying that voting for the bailout or gun control
> is a fascist thing to do, I'd have to conclude that you
> don't really understand what fascism is.
>
>
> woods:
> The bailout was money for banking interests. Obama
> will continue to support
> and allow Federal Reserve banking policies to be tied to
> the gov't no doubt. Did you
> see the list of Obama's voting record. He matches Bush
> on Patriot Act,
> Unwarranted Wire Tapping, expanding the military (growing
> the empire still,
> which is in over 100 countries and he wants more), forcing
> women to register
> to be drafted into the military, etc... check the list on
> another post or find it in
> wikipedia were I did.
>
>
> dmb:
> Think about what Pirsig says about fascism, that it is the
> glorification of social
> values and social authority, especially at the expense of
> intellectual values.
> Then think about the complaints from Arlo and me. The
> McCain supporters are
> saying that "liberals hate real americans", that
> the liberals in congress ought to
> be investigated for their anti-American activities, that
> these are the same types
> who put Pirsig on their shit list, that their opponents are
> branded as anti-American
> traitors, that guys like Hannity and Limbaugh have achieved
> new levels of fear,
> anger and venom and that the Republican "base" is
> really showing its true colors
> by calling Obama a terrorist, an arab, a secret Islamist
> and calling for his death.
> All this fear of other religions, flag waving, war making,
> tough guy foreign policy
> and xenophobic fear mongering is essentially the worship of
> social values and
> social authority. This goes hand in hand with the worship
> of the so-called free
> market, over the top religiosity and excessive patriotism.
> This is what fascism
> looks like from the inside. It's a kind of narcissism
> that wants to destroy everything
> that doesn't look and feel and act just like me and
> mine; my country, my religion,
> my values, my race, my language and my way of life.
> Difference of just about
> any kind is seen as some kind of evil, some kind of rot.
> And it's no accident that
> the bill of rights, the separation of powers and democracy
> in general has taken a
> huge hit over the last eight years.
>
> woods:
> Why are you saying this to me? Your point? dmb you
> seem to forget or don't
> follow my posts. I find McCain's rhetoric, especially
> Palin's, to be more intimidating
> than Obama's. What I find it hard to believe is that
> Obama will change much of anything.
> I'm not for McCain either. I'm a no vote or a
> write in. Ron Paul's recommending
> the Constitutional Party, but I don't think I can vote
> for them in this state or even
> write them in. I checked on it. So a no-vote for me.
> I'm done with these
> two parties that sound the same anymore. Did you hear
> Biden? An "international crisis"
> will test Obama "six months" into his
> administration. Biden said mark his words. Biden
> also said that they will not appear to be
> "right", but he asked the crowd at the rally to
> "trust them". Fear-mongering... Why won't
> they, Obama and Biden, appear to be right?
> What are they planning? Fear-tactics?
>
> dmb:
> And you know what fuels all the hate heaped on ACORN? They
> help black people register.
> So, so much of what the Republicans say is cryptic racism.
> English only, immigration issues,
> the war in Iraq, family values talk, defense of marriage
> talk and lots of other things would
> more or less fall flat if it weren't for the various
> forms of prejudice. Did you notice what
> McCain said when he took the microphone away from one of
> his supports who'd just said
> Obama was an Arab. He said, no ma'am, he a decent
> family man. As if being Arabic means
> you couldn't possibly be a decent person! And he's
> a Christian, but so what if he wasn't?
> This is not rational stuff, woody.
>
> woods:
> Yeah, your point again? Your stuck in a left-right,
> two-party paradigm, sounds SOM. By
> the way, I have no idea what McCain meant when he said that
> to this lady. At first I personally
> thought he was trying to counter the ladies insinuation
> that because Obama is arab then he's
> a bad mean, dangerous person, so, McCain was saying no
> Obama is not this dangerous mean
> person, but a decent family man. Then I heard about ca. 10
> interpretations of what the exchange
> meant on TV and radio, and yours was one interpretation
> from a Democrat.
>
> dmb:
> I'm not saying that Democrats or liberals are purely
> intellectual. Personally, in fact, I'm registered
> as non-affiliated and since 1980 I've voted democratic
> only about half the time. But I certainly
> will this time and I won't even have to hold my nose,
> as I always have before. I have never ever
> voted for a Republican and probably never will. In my
> opinion, anyone who votes Republican
> this year is either immoral or insane and probably both.
>
> woods:
> Yeah, but I don't think Obama will change anything.
> If he does, then good. His character needs
> to be a lot stronger and moral than what we may only begin
> to understand. Interest groups, military
> industrial complex, the bankers, international situations,
> etc... will be pushing their agendas and
> I find it will be difficult for any president to change the
> world stage. Now if Obama said he's going
> to pull troops out of all the countries in the world, focus
> on our borders, and try to focus more
> on reinstating the constitution, then maybe we would see
> the drastic change that is needed. But Obama
> is interested in changing little stuff here and there.
> Yeah he wants the troops out of Iraq. Good. That's
> a good first step, but what about the other 130 or so
> countries around the world? Is he all for this
> "New World Order Banking Structure" that Prime
> Minister Brown, French President, and Italian Prime
> Minister are for, and these summit meetings are trying to
> establish? If so, what does that mean for
> the U.S.? There's a whole other bigger event going on
> in this World Financial Restructuring that Obama
> hasn't even touched yet. There are events going on
> that Obama will get caught up in bigger problems
> and bigger events that I hope he can do some of little baby
> steps of change that he talks about. We'll
> see.
>
>
> dmb:
> Obama couldn't clean this mess up even if he held
> office for 20 years. Nobody could simply because
> the damage is too extensive. But if we move in the
> Bush/Cheney direction any further, we're sunk.
>
> woods:
> Exactly. But I really wonder if Obama will change much of
> the Bush/Cheney direction. He's voted with
> them on some of the major issues I spoke of above. Now
> Bush made a lot of his own decisions without
> Congressional approval, such as allowing the Military to
> help law enforcement during Katrina and the RNC
> the two I know about. That's unconstitutional and the
> ACLU (not very highly thought of I know) is looking
> into this at the moment for these military brigades are in
> the U.S. for the first time ever focusing on
> civil unrest and crowd control trainings under the command
> of Northcom. Why? and how lawful is this? ACLU
> is trying to get the information but the President and
> Congress will not talk about it. Bush has increased
> the shadow gov't by not talking with Congress about
> certain Acts Bush has signed off himself and Congress
> still demands to know about but Bush will not say, such as
> the Bush has new martial law powers if any
> crisis would occur, economic, military, natural disaster,
> etc... and Bush can take over the state's national guard
>
> (which are in usual times commanded by the Governors) and
> the President can take over private or gov't
> institutions
> from the federal, state, local, and tribal levels. I
> can't remember the bill off-hand, but you can find it.
>
> dmb:
> It might be too late already. And so the democrats
> represent the only reasonable way to put the breaks
> on this trend.
>
> woods:
> Yeah. In a two party system when one party has been in
> administration and it did not go well, then
> you only have one choice.
>
> dmb:
> There is no other legal way to stop it. I realize that way
> too many people throw the word "fascism"
> around for stupid reasons. But I was a history major and
> did my undergrad thesis on Germany's fascism.
> It wasn't a very good paper but I've been thinking
> and reading about it ever since and I'm telling you that
>
> this is what it looks like. People who were there and lived
> through it will tell you the same thing.
> Naomi Wolf is far more educated than me. So check this out
> this talk she gave at the University of
> Washington about a year ago...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
>
> woods:
> Yeah, I've read some of Naomi's works online.
> I actually have this
> link bookmarked, but haven't been able to watch it yet.
> I watched the trailer
> to the movie called "The End of America". Looks
> interesting. I've heard her
> on the radio. Did you know somebody (this might sound way
> out there)
> approached her and told her that there are FEMA camps set
> up with shackles
> and such? The source was afraid to allow her to have
> his/her name, but this
> person seemed "sincere" in Naomi's words.
> Now she didn't find it credible
> for she's a trained mainstream investigative reporter,
> but she says this is
> the kind of stuff people are approaching her about and
> found this to be very
> disturbing. When Naomi goes on TV or talks about the
> military brigade in
> Georgia under Northcom's command that Northcom posted
> about being here
> because the brigade would help in civil unrest and crowd
> control (how they
> could now would be unconstitutional. The military can not
> help in law enforcement,
> though Northcom admits they were at Katrina and RNC for law
> enforcement support),
> she can't get any traction. Nobody wants to talk about
> it and investigate it. She
> says people in the media look at her as if she's
> "viral" (her word). Yet, we all
> know their here, but nobody finds it of interest for some
> reason to discuss it.
> Who knows if it's true or not about these FEMA camps
> where boxed cars are
> located on train tracks pulled up to big buildings? Naomi
> couldn't get a credible
> source and she didn't try to find these so called FEMA
> camps. She admits it's not
> a credible source either. But I've heard about them
> from other sources, but I don't
> want to comment on them for I really don't know where
> this rumor is coming from.
> Naomi has also pointed out that a woman in Vermont is
> running for
> state attorneys office and the platform of this person is
> once in office
> she is going to go after Bush for criminal charges.
>
>
>
> woods
>
> P.S. I admit the Lucifer tie in opposition to zeitgeist was
> out there. I just
> find the whole zeitgeist stuff to be out there too. That
> was my point, but hey,
> it's over. I've posted much on this cite, and I
> guess I reacted the way I did
> for how you came across without engaging and trying to
> figure out where
> I was coming from without your hot-headed temperament and
> words due to
> one post out of the probably hundreds I've made here.
>
>
>
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