Hi Alan
> MLO is superb BECAUSE it only caters to the "techie" power user. My central thesis is that it should do BOTH. To be honest when I first signed up I was appalled by various things particularly lack of explainer videos (now being gradually resolved) and various things about the help manual. From memory various things were simply wrong or out-of-date and it was missing various crucial things including various hotkeys. Even though MLO are a small company there is no excuse for not doing more user testing with new users. J P.S. Reminder: I have updated this wiki which now has the full list of keyboard shortcuts here: http://www.shortcutworld.com/en/win/MyLifeOrganized.html On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 3:32:33 PM UTC, Alan Grainger wrote: > > Hi J Smith > > MLO is superb BECAUSE it only caters to the "techie" power user. > > I have tried every other GTD and task management software out there. I've > been trying to find the perfect system for around 4 years. Last year I > discovered MLO and it absolutely changed my life. > > There are a plethora of user-friendly, simplistic, "mainstream" options > out there. > > There is only one MLO. My only regret was not finding it earlier!! > > On Friday, 20 November 2015 05:38:29 UTC+13, J Smith wrote: >> >> >> >> chrisleeuk >> >> As previously discussed MLO is much more of a platform and less of an >> application. All I am saying is that the confusing and cluttered nature of >> the inteface this is holding back sales dramatically. And that this is >> completely unnecesssary and a shame. >> >> Personally I have wasted countless hours trying to get MLO to do what I >> seek. Through pure bloody-mindedness I have tried using all sorts of >> dramatically different configurations. >> >> Out of interest did you ever try GTDNext. I have my eye on them because >> unlike MLO they are incredibly responsive to customers. They are an >> extremely small team however they listen to all feedback and reply to it >> all - usually pretty swiftly (often within a day or two). They will give >> reasons where they don't implement stuff. And they also release things in >> the modern way with lots of small incremental changes, which further >> encourages users to get involved and to give more feedback. In short they >> clearly seem to have read Eric Ries's best selling book "The Lean Startup" >> and seem to be putting into practice. MLO have a lot to learn from GTDNext. >> >> Yes MLO is find for geeks, but it is not fine for mainstream users. And >> I simply can not imagine any of my non-geekfriends using it because the >> learning curve is too steep and the interface too cluttered/confusing. >> >> Which is a shame because it is superb in so many ways... >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, 18 November 2015 17:54:23 UTC, chrisleeuk wrote: >>> >>> This is more a reply to the comments from John Smith. >>> >>> >>> >>> I regard myself as a techie, which according to your comments suggests I >>> don't fit into the definition of a normal human being :) >>> >>> I'm not sure if that makes me some kind of super human, or a weird tech >>> geek, either way, I take it as a compliment. >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm sorry that you find the learning curve for MLO so challenging. >>> >>> I agree that MLO could probably benefit from a little more in the help >>> department and it always better to make software accessible. >>> >>> >>> >>> MLO is definitely powerful and configurable and no doubt learning all >>> the features does take time. >>> >>> >>> >>> Personally I found that with MLO I could start small. I could learn to >>> use the basic task functionality without much issue. Gradually I learned >>> the more advanced functionality, but MLO did a good job of hiding all this >>> stuff away until I was ready. >>> >>> >>> >>> I've tried probably half of the software and services on your list of >>> competition. Many were easy to use and no doubt would appeal more to a >>> wider public. However in every case I found them either too limiting or I >>> had to bend my work flow and way of thinking to fit the product. >>> >>> >>> >>> With MLO I can configure it to fit me. >>> >>> >>> >>> Your argument is principally that MLO will fail due to lack of mass >>> market appeal, or that it is inferior because it will be too difficult for >>> the average person. >>> >>> >>> >>> It's a typically modern view that products must conform to the lowest >>> common denominator in order appeal to the maximum audience. That’s the kind >>> of thinking that, for example, results in big corporations creating some >>> truly dreadful, but highly profitable TV shows. >>> >>> >>> >>> MLO does require some investment of your time. It does require learning. >>> It’s highly specialized, and won’t appeal to everyone. >>> >>> >>> >>> MLO as a company is small but it’s sustained itself for 15 years so far. >>> >>> >>> >>> Not every product needs to be all things to all people, but if you can't >>> get on with MLO, you have a big list of other software that might meet your >>> individual needs better. >>> >>> >>> >>> MLO appeals to a niche market, and that’s fine by me. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, 1 December 2014 01:56:40 UTC-7, J Smith wrote: >>>> >>>> Obviously because I am new... that means in part I have no idea what I >>>> am talking about. But partly it makes me a real expert in the NEW user >>>> experience. >>>> >>>> The thing is I develop/managed websites for a living and I too would >>>> regard myself as 'above average' technically and I also have a strong >>>> sense >>>> of how users work. >>>> >>>> To be honest, I do feel for the MLO team. Given where they are, it will >>>> not be easy to get to where they need to get to in order to get anything >>>> close to adoption by the mainstream audience. >>>> >>>> I am being extremely persistent here because I have a fairly short >>>> time-window in which to get my entire life onto MLO... or give the heck up. >>>> >>>> I am also being persistent because there is MUCH wrong with all the >>>> competition that I have seen so far. But that won't last (see below). >>>> >>>> What do I like about MLO? >>>> >>>> Well, on the up-side, there is a plethora of hotkeys on MLO, many of >>>> which you can configure yourself is great and it is dead-easy to whiz >>>> items >>>> things up and down multi-level Project Trees and also it's also trivial to >>>> switch items between being an action and being a Projects. [These aspects >>>> are astonishingly rare in the obvious competing product that I have tried >>>> but I LOVE them in MLO!] Moreover you can have something called a "Folder" >>>> which is neither a Project nor an Action. It's a subject area. (Brilliant! >>>> But again, v rare in other apps...). >>>> >>>> On the down-side this has to be up there as being one of the hardest >>>> apps to 'learn how to drive' that I have ever, EVER come across. [And >>>> that's even after I have spent quite a lot of time reading up on GTD >>>> theory >>>> - and after I have even listened to an entire 2-day seminar by David >>>> Allen!] >>>> >>>> BUT I can't think of a single social or business friend who would put >>>> up with this level of difficulty of learning that I have experienced with >>>> MLO. Yes, some techies might well go for it... but any normal human being >>>> - >>>> Absolutely no chance! >>>> >>>> And it's no use saying "but it's very powerful and configurable". Life >>>> is short. We are aren't here for the fun of using your >>>> software... Ultimately we are only using these tools in order to *save* >>>> us time! >>>> >>>> [Aside: MLO reminds me of the PC database software dBase clone called >>>> Clipper - anyone here old enough to remember that? It was indeed >>>> incredibly >>>> powerful and configurable but the learning curve to get anything useful >>>> out >>>> of it was about 3 months. Management were NOT happy. And commercially it >>>> simply *died* as hugely powerful and highly configurable as it was.] >>>> >>>> Now, after all the work the you good people at MLO have put into this >>>> your extremely powerful tool, this is bad news indeed. >>>> >>>> If you want a 'quick win' you could regain a lot of usability points at >>>> a stroke simply by doing a couple of explainer videos. A quick short high >>>> level one for total newbies *selling* the whole concept (max 1-2 mins) >>>> and a more detailed one for the converts telling us *how to use* the >>>> system (8-12 mins). And then if you get a chance do another 5 or 10 and >>>> slap them onto YouTube. And do them in English. >>>> >>>> Having built this video the next thing you need to do is 'Primary >>>> Customer Research' - newbie *user trials *! What you need is need >>>> about 8-10 users who are not particularly technical sit them down in front >>>> of the software and WATCH. Get them to talk their thoughts out loud. Video >>>> them. >>>> >>>> Then show them the video and watch again. You will be appalled, I >>>> promise you. >>>> >>>> Honestly, you chaps have built a fantastic engine. But if you want to >>>> appeal to *Mainstream* users (rather than *Early Adopters*) then >>>> frankly you people need to stop all developments until you have done both >>>> of the above. >>>> >>>> To get clear Early Adopters have a very different psychology from >>>> Mainstream users. Early Adopters like to be the first. They are generally >>>> pretty clever. They like learning news stuff. They tolerate complexity, >>>> mistakes, errors and even bugs to a significant extent. >>>> >>>> BUT there aren't all that many of them. And if your product appears to >>>> be going nowhere and is not longer "cutting edge", then they will feel >>>> like >>>> idiots for wasting their time with you and they are off! >>>> >>>> MAINSTREAM users are different. They value their time very highly. They >>>> just want to get the job done. And fast. They do NOT want to waste any >>>> more >>>> time than necessary learning stuff. So they want everything to be easy to >>>> learn and obvious. They like simplicity. They HATE complexity. They want >>>> to >>>> get the job done and they want everything to work. >>>> >>>> Frankly as things stand, MLO is a total nightmare for Mainstream users. >>>> But don't just take my/Joel's word for it. Do some serious trials with >>>> newbie users! Try some less intelligent / 'ditsy' and/or 'arty' new users. >>>> Even try some slightly drunk or extremely tired users. You need a random >>>> spectrum of users to trail. They will run screaming I guarantee you. >>>> >>>> [Aside: Another top top - if you are short of time &/or money and want >>>> to do a 'quick and dirty'/'better than nothing' user trial, then consider >>>> using Feedback Army and asking the reviewers to so something specific. The >>>> clever thing is that you can keep rejecting their responses until you are >>>> happy with the level of work that they have done. Brilliant! But actually >>>> you at MLO also need to do proper face-to-face user trials I suspect as >>>> well] >>>> >>>> If you want further proof of what I am saying take the number of really >>>> important keyboard shortcuts that are completely missing from your >>>> official >>>> Keyboard Shortcuts page. e.g. >>>> >>>> Control/PgUp ==> to change tab >>>> Control/PgDn ==> to change tab >>>> Control/Enter ==> to parse the title of an item >>>> Control/Shift/Insert ==> to add a new folder >>>> Control/Shift/S ==> to add a star >>>> Control/M ==> to move a task >>>> >>>> ...} all missing ! (er I think...!) >>>> >>>> If you had done in depth user trials then surely this would have been >>>> picked up. >>>> >>>> One word of caution. Beware of *some* of your most loyal customers. >>>> There is no subtext to this - I am not having a go anyone whatsoever. But >>>> it's an established fact that in order to appeal to *Mainstream* >>>> customers you will almost certainly get terrible advice from some of your >>>> customers. But they are dangerous. They are far too close to your product >>>> to see it through the eyes of anyone else. And over time they can bankrupt >>>> you. >>>> >>>> Finally you need to know that much though I am trying to help MLO in >>>> what probably seems like a whirlwind of input, please know that I am not >>>> happy. And I have been keeping a list of competing software in case I find >>>> that I genuinely can not get MLO to work for me (This is still not clear >>>> either way...!) . And believe me there is a LOT of competition. My >>>> spreadsheet for this purpose has well over 100 competitors ! >>>> >>>> For completeness here they are: >>>> 2Do >>>> 5PM >>>> Achieve Planner >>>> ActionComplete >>>> Action Method >>>> ActiveInBox >>>> Ajour >>>> Apigio >>>> Asana >>>> Assembla Tickets >>>> Astrid List/Task Manager >>>> Blue Smiley Organizer >>>> Bonsai >>>> Bontq >>>> Central Desktop >>>> Clear (Realmac Software) >>>> ClearContext >>>> Conqu >>>> d-cubed >>>> DoIt.im >>>> Do It Tomorrow >>>> do-Organizer >>>> DropTask >>>> Due Today >>>> EasyTask Manager >>>> eProductivity >>>> EssentialPIM Pro >>>> EverNote (+The Secret Weapon) >>>> FacileThings >>>> Facio Tasks >>>> Feng Office >>>> Flashpoint >>>> Flow >>>> Frictionless >>>> GeeTeeDee >>>> germ.io >>>> Get Stuff Done >>>> Getitdoneapp >>>> Ghost Action >>>> Gmail Tasks >>>> GoalsOnTrack >>>> Google Tasks >>>> GTD TiddlyWiki Plus >>>> GTDAgenda >>>> GTDFree >>>> GTDNext >>>> gtd-php >>>> Harmony PIM >>>> HiTask >>>> iGTD >>>> IQTell >>>> Jello Dashboard >>>> KOI >>>> KonoLive >>>> Lifeballanced >>>> LifeTopix >>>> LiquidPlanner >>>> Lists Manager? >>>> MasterList Professional >>>> mGSD >>>> MindManager >>>> MindOnTrack >>>> MyLifeOrganized >>>> Nach >>>> Nepture >>>> Next Action, Personal Ed >>>> Nexty >>>> Nirvana >>>> Nitro >>>> Nozbe >>>> Omnifocus >>>> OneNote >>>> OnePlace >>>> Online Task List >>>> Oprius >>>> Organitask >>>> Org-Mode >>>> Outlook 2010 >>>> Papirus >>>> Pimki >>>> Plancake >>>> PocketInformant >>>> Priacta >>>> Producteev >>>> propelr >>>> Psoda >>>> Redmill >>>> Relenta >>>> Remember The Milk (RTM) >>>> RexDesktop >>>> SimpleNote >>>> SandGlaz >>>> Smart To-Do List >>>> SmartSheet >>>> Smartytask >>>> Smthngs >>>> Task Coach >>>> Task Toy >>>> TaskFreak >>>> TaskPad.jp >>>> Tasks/Tasks Pro >>>> TaskStep >>>> TaskTask (iOS only?) >>>> TaskUnifier >>>> Taskwarrior >>>> Tasque >>>> The Now Organiser >>>> Things (iOS only?) (by Cultured Code) >>>> ThinkingRock >>>> Thymer >>>> TickTick >>>> TiDy >>>> TimeGT >>>> TimeManagementNinja.com >>>> Timetpnote >>>> Tjeklist >>>> ToDo >>>> To-Do DeskList >>>> ToDo.txt >>>> ToDo Exchange >>>> ToDo Matrix >>>> Todo Pro >>>> ToDoIst >>>> ToDoList >>>> ToDoMoo >>>> Toodledo >>>> TomBoy >>>> TouchDown w Exchange Tasks >>>> TaskUnifier >>>> Tracks >>>> Tracks.tra.in >>>> Treedolist >>>> Ultimate ToDo >>>> Upvise >>>> VIP Task Manager >>>> VitalList >>>> Voo2doo >>>> What To Do >>>> WhatsNext (not ready?) >>>> Week Plan >>>> Wieldy >>>> Workflowy >>>> Wunderlist >>>> Zendone >>>> Zoho CRM >>>> Zoot >>>> >>>> OK many of they above may not be *direct* competitors, (e.g. many >>>> don't run on Windows and many are more list managers than GTD tools as >>>> such >>>> ) but I promise you that as a normal/average user, this is the number of >>>> tools we have to wade through on-line, competing with your listings. >>>> >>>> Why are there quite so many competitors? Because they all think that >>>> the existing market leaders aren't doing a good enough job! They are >>>> trying to steal your lunch and there are a LOT of them out there. >>>> >>>> Conclusion: >>>> You have SERIOUS competition and you need to raise your game. You need >>>> dramatically improved usability. >>>> >>>> Finally: >>>> Please don't think I'm saying you need to work harder. Nor write better >>>> code. What I'm saying is you need to work differently. VERY differently. >>>> >>>> J >>>> >>>> >>>> P.S. If anyone from MLO is still reading and appreciating my input >>>> please let me know. >>>> >>>> Alternatively, if I am simply wasting my breath please do let me know >>>> too! >>>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyLifeOrganized" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mylifeorganized+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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