Look, you are both discussing a moot point, Facts. 1. It is not in the power of this list or anyone on it. to change the course of action about to be undertaken. 2. It doesn't matter why it was done, or weather the people who did it think they are heros.... THINK LOGICALLY!!! nobody for whatever reason, be it the US or anyone else, can really expect anyone to believe that killing 10,000 innocient people is "doing the right thing" and furthering their cause. 3. The people who did this, must have known that the USDF would come after them or at least try to, (hence my feeling that the trail of evidence they are finding is fake...(ie, why take lugage on a suicide flight?)) 4. How can a terrorist campaign work, if the people who did it, don't claim it???? it might as well be 10,000 car accidents for all it means. (There is no possible victory, if the defeated nation doesn't know to whom or what they are capitulating...) PUT simply, Show me a people, anywhere in the world who deserve to be free, that think killing thousands of innociant people (ANYWHERE, not just the US) furthers their cause and is a holy task... regardless of the reason... If you use that theory, then consider this, using that logic, that killing ordinary people helps, then the USA could use that same theory to nuke afganistan.... it would very likely kill the terrorists... and they get to heaven as a result... an all around win yes??? (that was sarcasm people,,, ) The muslim religion does not promote this,,, it is simple fanatisism. There is no reason to attack innociant people, if the attack had been against US army/airforce ect,, then it would be considered war and par for the course... When the US kills harmless bystanders, they suck, when anyone else does, they suck too. It doesn't matter anymore what happens in the past, we are supposed to learn from it,, the fact that we don't tells me more about the human race they I really wanted to know. My summary is that the greatest truth, was spoken by arnie in Terminator II to the boy when the boy said "we're not going to make it are we? (speaking about the human race) and arnie responds by saying something to the effect that its in the humans nature to destroy each other.... We don't learn.... war is one thing, terrorism is another entirely, neither are right, but one is a horrific travesty, regardless of the reason or the countries involved. rgds Frank -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sridhar Dhanapalan Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2001 12:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Re: [LINUX_Newbies] USA TERROR ATTACK!!!! On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:27:55 -0400, "Jose M. Sanchez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As I said, you are the consummate voice of inexperience and youth... In these matters, predetermined views and experience can be more of a hindrance than a help. I was given a standard Western neoliberal education at school. However, when I started doing government and international relations, I found that these views did not fit in well at all with non-Western nations (i.e. most of the world). I had to un-learn these neoliberal teachings in order to understand different cultures and societies (kind of like how a newbie should un-learn their Windows knowledge if they want to leant GNU/Linux well) and to look at them objectively (i.e. not look at them through a Western lens, which is a _very_ easy trap to fall into). Consequently, I gained new understanding and knowledge on most of the world (something which neoliberal teachings _cannot_ do), and acquired fresh perspectives on what I had learnt previously. There _is_ more than one way to look at things, and it is only when you can do this that you can really _understand_ something (I'm not saying that I truly understand everything, but I tend to do so better than most people, because of this). The same applies here. As an American, who is emotionally attached to his country and who has spent a long period in the neoliberal tradition, you have been affected in some way (either consciously or even subconsciously) by this incident. At this moment of time, at least, it is difficult for you to be objective about things. The general attitude of Americans on online fora such as this list is one of shock, anger and vengeance. This is perfectly understandable, given the circumstances. However, one cannot keep one's head in the sand for too long. There is almost _never_ one view. One of the first things you learn when you study the social sciences is that monocausal factors are very rare indeed. > What are you about 22-26? Nineteen :-) Age obviously is not everything. The best international relations lecturer I ever had is still in her twenties, and she knows a _lot_ (she's got a phD, written a few books, etc.). As I mentioned above, too much experience in a field such as this can put you at risk of becoming a dinosaur, unless you evolve and adapt that experience to changing times and circumstances. This happens all the time amongst theorists. They may be fashionable for a while, and eventually they fall out of favour. Nevertheless, some continue writing in support of their original ideas, and consequently their peers basically ignore them. > Give it a few years and you will find out which of your preconceptions > are right and wrong. The same could go for anyone, including yourself. At least I backed my arguments with evidence. I am currently writing a research report on a mildly similar topic, and so I have a good idea of what I am talking about (and probably explains why I have gotten a little carried away with this thread). I have based my arguments on what I have read in proper academic articles and journals, not on what I read in USA Today or see on CNN. On the other hand, you offer no evidence or proof (or even any real arguments, for that matter), so at present to me it looks like you're arguing simply for the sake of arguing, perhaps simply to make yourself look superior when in fact you have nothing. Of course, I could be totally wrong, and I invite you to prove me wrong. > I'd love to chat with the older and wiser version of yourself then. > You'll be far more interesting. I would like that. Perhaps you can offer an actual argument in the future. > -JMS > > > |-----Original Message----- > |From: Sridhar Dhanapalan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > |Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:38 AM > |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > |Subject: Re: [newbie] Re: [LINUX_Newbies] USA TERROR ATTACK!!!! > | > | > |On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:48:57 -0400, "Jose M. Sanchez" > |<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > |wrote: > |> > |> Well you've just proven for all the list to see that you are > |victim to > |> mis-representations and hearsay, otherwise you would not how > |> dramatically untrue your facts are... > | -- Sridhar Dhanapalan. "There are two major products that come from Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence." -- Jeremy S. Anderson
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