I'd have to agree with that.
Also, with Exchange 2003, with Ninja, I never had a problem with the mail stores and viruses. We did have a problem with a RAID array that dropped - the entire array. Logs were on a different array. I immediately made a call to Microsoft and opened a critical care ticket. They walked me through rebuilding the server, and adding the mail stores back in, doing the restore, and replaying all of the logs. No lost mail. Honestly, this wasn't a 'bug' that needed fixing, and I don't think I would have had a problem doing it, but they had no problem with doing this, and he was on the phone for a lot longer than I would think the cost of the onetime critical ticket covered. Hats off to Microsoft Support. Someone sold the owners on cloud computing, so now I'm looking at Amazon's computing services to see if it'll run a full featured Exchange client. It doesn't look like it, per this note: Home > Support Center > Forums > Amazon Web Services > Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud Thread: How to Set-up Exchange Server (2003 or 2007) on EC2 ??? http://developer.amazonwebservices.com/connect/thread.jspa?messageID=112 740𛡤 Has anyone run Exchange in a Cloud? == John == From: Brian Desmond [mailto:br...@briandesmond.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:37 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Mail server software Comparing Exchange today (especially vNext) to 5.5 is a really inappropriate comparison. The product has evolved very very much since then. Taking away the transaction log of ANY database (regardless of if it's Exchange or not) will break it, guaranteed. That's not an Exchange issue, that's an issue with managing the server. I've not run into any issues where doing a full store scan has caused the store to crash recently either, certainly nothing that hasn't been fixed. Thanks, Brian Desmond br...@briandesmond.com c - 312.731.3132 From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:01 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Mail server software I agree, I did not articulate my requirements very well. However, I ass-u-med that any admin in their right mind would want to be able to back up their mail server. Maybe it's just me??? Same issue with Antivirus. Or maybe you run your mail server without antivirus? I have to admit my experience with Exchange is limited to Exchange 5.5 (I think it was) about 4 years ago... I just remember that we had some issues with viruses getting into the mail server and we couldn't scan the mail store as that would cause Exchange to die. Also had some problems when the antivirus (Symantec Corporate Edition at the time) "ate" a log file that Exchange was wanting and caused the system to crash. So, yeah, I'm anti-Exchange both from a cost perspective and a perspective of someone who's worked with an admittedly out-dated version. That being said, my understanding is that the above facts have not changed significantly since Ex 5.5. If they have, great, but that still leaves the fact that Exchange is horribly expensive. From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:17 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Mail server software Maybe I'm being obtuse, but you didn't state all of your objectives clearly. The backup wasn't a requirement until later in your thread, as well as the anti-virus/backup plugin issue. You also left off a no-hosting requirement, because you were bringing it back in house. I get the impression that you don't know what you want, except that you don't want Exchange, for reasons that haven't been effectuviley articulated and seem to be poorly defined upfront to those trying to assist you. -Jonathan On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:08 PM, John Aldrich < jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com> wrote: Yes, but you don't have any way to restore *just one message* with NTBackup. :-) Agree that I should have been a bit more specific... If you want to be able to back up mailbox by mailbox, etc. you have to "pay to play" with Exchange. Other email server software, no so much. :-) -----Original Message----- From: John Cook [mailto:john.c...@pfsf.org] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 2:59 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Mail server software Not to discount what you know about Exchange but... 1. I don't think any DB should be scanned by an AV program that doesn't recognize it as such. Ninja is stellar at this. 2. I'm backing up my E2K7 DBs with the native windowsbackup, no extra cost to me. John W. Cook Systems Administrator Partnership For Strong Families 315 SE 2nd Ave Gainesville, Fl 32601 Office (352) 393-2741 x320 Cell (352) 215-6944 Fax (352) 393-2746 MCSE, MCTS, MCP+I, A+, N+, VSP4, VTSP4 -----Original Message----- From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 2:43 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: Mail server software Exactly! That's one of my concerns... Antivirus has to be told to overlook certain directories and you have to have an "exchange-aware" antivirus or buy a special "plugin" for the antivirus to allow it to scan the Exchange DB. AFAIK, most of the "alternatives" (at least Kerio) doesn't have this restriction. Not to mention having to buy special add-ons for your archiving solution just to back up the email store. Oh, and while it's not a problem now, up until the most recent version of Exchange, you couldn't have more than one message store and if it got too big, it would virtually implode from being so big. On the reasons why I don't like Outlook, the 2 GB PST file size is a biggie. :-) Although the main reason they get that big is that idiots like to send large files via email...and email is NOT a file transfer application. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:44 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: Mail server software On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Brian Desmond<br...@briandesmond.com> wrote: > What's the problem with the database engine? There's been a massive amount > of engineering work in that space - I don't expect it's going anywhere. I can't speak for the OP... but the fact that the Exchange IS is a giant binary blob, completely opaque for the most part, requiring special tools to work with it, has always made me somewhat uncomfortable. I worked with a Cyrus mail system once that was really sweet. It could handle many more users on much smaller hardware vs Exchange at the time, and all the mail was still stored in plain text files (one per message). You could analyze the message store with the "more" command if you had to. I don't think we ever had to, but it was nice to know you had the option. I like simple systems; they tend to be more robust. Exchange has always struck me as being more complex than it needed to be. In particular, Exchange is pretty fragile when you mistreat it. There's not much you can do to a Cryus mail server that will result in major data loss; you can reconstruct from basics if you have to. Exchange, sheesh, in 2000, all you had to do was run a file search against the "M: drive" and the server would implode. On my list of things to worry about, all this is pretty low down on my list, but it's not my ideal situation. -- Ben ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.58/2309 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: The information transmitted, or contained or attached to or with this Notice is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain Protected Health Information (PHI), confidential and/or privileged material. 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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.58/2309 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.58/2309 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~
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