On 2/13/07, Michael Kidder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > For one: > > People have had no trouble porting GUI based .NET programs to Linux. See here: > part 1 > http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/May-19.html > > part 2 > http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2006/Dec-16-1.html >
This is for applications using Gtk#. That's fine. What about the other 98% of applications using Forms? The latest version of Mono draws its own forms (it used to tell Wine to do it), which is fine.. except if you want it to look like your native Gtk or Qt (that is, unless they use Gtk to draw the forms). My point is that for the vast majority of .NET apps, they're going to require porting of some kind. Porting that is substantially hurt because of the lack of official support. Ideally, you don't port at all -- it just works. Java Swing is like this. > Two > Sorry, but I'd rather not use fake keys to register a program. Using > Visual Studio Express is both free -and- legal. > They're not fake per se. They're valid mathematical mistakes. I actually own VB6 through my school. I just prefer to use the all zeros key for a couple reasons: 1) it works 2) it looks funny in the startup dialogs 3) it's rumored that the VB6 bytecompiler embeds a checksum of your key in all EXEs built, so Microsoft can see if the EXE was built with a pirated VB6 or not. Using this key allows you to give Microsoft the finger. > > Three > I have already tried to learn Ruby and Python and hated both of them. Most people love them. For me, coming from the QB/VB6 background, I absolutely hate VB.NET and what Microsoft did to the language. I like C#, but the fact that if Mono didn't exist, there'd be no cross-platform support irks me. The main reason I suggested Python/Ruby is because they work everywhere. And if you need native code, you can use it (in Ruby, you can actually write the code inline in your .rb files). > But I also don't lord my programming language of choice over other > people, because I'm one of those weird platform-agnostic > programminglanguage-agnostic persons that just use what works for me. > VB6 programs are not going to run well or natively under Vista. Nothing runs well under Vista. Vista doesn't run well under Vista. Case in point? There's a memory water main busted somewhere. It's bigger than a leak. If you use Vista for a few days, you've leaked about a gig of memory. Using Beryl in Gentoo, I leak about 100-200MB (I'm sitting at 500MB right now and I've been up for about a week). I heard that this leak is a feature related to prefetching, but I don't like it at all if it is. Also, there has to be a way to use Avalon from non-managed C++. Otherwise, Microsoft is going to piss off Adobe and everyone else that has huge applications written in non-managed C++ or C. And if there is a way, there's a way to do it from VB6. And if someone makes a VB6 designer for Avalon-related crap, the language will live on into the next decade. Because it works on everything (in this case, it'd only work on XP+Vista, unless the Avalon designer automagically converted the forms to be VB6 forms if Avalon isn't found...). > And > I'd rather learn how to port to Mono than make someone run WINE just > for a engine frontend. WINE is not very user friendly. Well. It's getting there. Most people who want user-friendliness use CrossOver though. > > Four > No, the license I was thinking of was either "none at all" or "MIT > license". I like open source but despise the GPL. I like the GPL. Then again, if I couldn't secure a way for people to either share their modifications or don't modify my programs at all, I wouldn't have open sourced it in the first place. I don't like the BSD license for this reason -- anyone can take my code, use it, change it, and screw me over. If I'm making an office suite, for example, all Microsoft has to do is steal my code, put their name on it, and sell it, and suddenly my work is now useless, because I now have to compete against myself. Yes, they've done similar things before. > > > On 2/12/07, Keith Gable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > <rant type="tangent" target="dotnet"> > > > > On 2/12/07, Michael Kidder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > .NET doesn't suck. I'm suprised people would hate it, since it's > > > fairly easy to port a .NET program to Mono and run it on Linux / OSX. > > > > _Sort of_. > > > > If it's command line, it'll run without modification. If you use a > > GUI, have fun. It usually requires porting of some kind, and last I > > read up on it, there was no good way to have a UI look correct on > > every platform (basically: Qt gets it right, .NET doesn't, wxWidgets > > fails, etc.) > > > > If I cared about portability though, I'd use another language that's a > > little bit more... well... flexible, like Ruby or Python or something. > > Regardless of how much a standards body has to do with it, .NET will > > always be a Microsoft baby. Until Microsoft open sources their .NET > > platform, it will still be a Microsoft baby. Seriously, you don't > > think of Java as coming from anyone except Sun, right? The same > > concept applies. Yeah, it runs anywhere. Anywhere that there's a CLR. > > And the only CLR that is the _real_ CLR is the Microsoft CLR. There is > > no Microsoft CLR for Unix. However, Sun does make a JDK/JRE for Unix. > > > > So, I'm not going to consider Unix a "supported" .NET platform until > > Microsoft comes out with a CLR. Right now, running VB6 apps under Wine > > is more stable and less prone to errors (when using a GUI). > > > > > An example of a great .NET program is Paint.NET ( > > > http://www.getpaint.net ) which is being ported to Linux/Mono by > > > someone. > > > > > > Of note, any programming language or program I tried to load the DLL > > > in didn't like it; Game Maker (which is written in Delphi) gave the > > > vague error of "Error Loading DLL". The exact error from Visual Basic > > > .NET was "no such entry point" for the function I tried to load with > > > the following code: > > > > > > Declare Sub unlump Lib "unlumpdll" (ByRef lump$, ByRef ulpath$) > > > > DLLs have to use the StdCall calling procedure to work with VB (this > > is obviously something I know nothing about as I've never written a > > DLL...). > > > > > > > > There's also an awesome reason: Visual Basic 6 costs money. > > > > Well, being as acquiring a CD is easy enough, feel free to use any of > > my CD keys: > > 000-0000000 > > 111-0000000 > > 000-1111111 > > 111-1111111 (I think this one works) > > > > ;) > > > > > Visual > > > Basic 2005 is free and available from MS at > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/ , so I'll die of old age > > > before I ever attempt to get VB6. > > > > Or, you can join the cool kids club and use another, more Unixy > > language. I mean, _everyone_ is doing it. :) > > > > Seriously though. Learn Ruby or Python or something ^_^. > > > > > > > > Either way, a DLL with general functions would be great since everyone > > > making external programs to the OHR wouldn't have to re-invent the > > > wheel every single time, and is a lot more flexible for people that > > > don't want to be forced to use the GPL by copying the unlump code from > > > the source. > > > > </rant> > > > > > > So, are you suggesting LGPL? :) > > > > > > > > On 2/12/07, Bob the Hamster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2007 at 09:11:23PM -0600, Keith Gable wrote: > > > > > -snip- > > > > > > This coming from someone who limited the script buffer to 256kb? > > > > > > What > > > > > > you're talking about is loading the entire RPG into memory. If not, > > > > > > then you're not gaining anything by reading directly from the RPG > > > > > > except disk space, and losing the ability to muck with the lumps on > > > > > > the fly. > > > > > > > > > > I think this would be a Good Thing(TM), with memory not at a premium > > > > > anymore. The main thing is that lumps could be manipulated as raw data > > > > > structures. > > > > > > > > I would not advocate loading into memory the whole RPG file. For most > > > > lumps, the speed improvement would be insignifigant. > > > > > > > > The best way to determine which lumps should be kept in memory (and > > > > indeed which performance optimizations of ANY kind are appropriate) is > > > > with a profiling tool. Profile to see where the slow places actually > > > > are-- don't guess. > > > > > > > > I myself have only recently learned this lesson, but now that I know it, > > > > I wish I had learned it... oh... back in 1998 (Help me, John Titor!) > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Bob the Hamster > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ohrrpgce mailing list > > > > ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org > > > > http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ohrrpgce mailing list > > > ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org > > > http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Keith Gable > > Lead Programmer / Project Leader > > The Ignition Project <http://www.ignition-project.com/> > > > > [Ask me how you can get a free Gmail account - Now with Google Chat!] > > _______________________________________________ > > ohrrpgce mailing list > > ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org > > http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org > > > _______________________________________________ > ohrrpgce mailing list > ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org > http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org > -- Keith Gable Lead Programmer / Project Leader The Ignition Project <http://www.ignition-project.com/> [Ask me how you can get a free Gmail account - Now with Google Chat!] _______________________________________________ ohrrpgce mailing list ohrrpgce@lists.motherhamster.org http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
